Session Start: Thu Nov 04 10:42:53 1999
* Logging #ICANN-LA to 'icann-la110499.log'
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<urgen> hi
<urgen> so last night I did a search on ICANN
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<urgen> it is wonderful to see the community self organize like that
<paulds> morning
<urgen> there are quite a few independent political action groups trying to get ICANN's attention
<urgen> good morning
<urgen> almost every item I found on the search engine related to ICANN was ICANN,, there seems to be an AI program named that too :-)
<urgen> good joke eh?
<urgen> I need to organize all these outside references and put them on a neutral page
<urgen> there needs to be an independent neutral voice
<urgen> I guess just an IP newswire sort of thing
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<urgen> hi
<tommyg> mornig.
<tommyg> lol.
<tommyg> morniNg
<paulds> good mornig to you too :)
<WardGoodwin> Good Morning.
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<MLangston> hi.
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<WardGoodwin> I wonder if we will get an open comment period today....
<MLangston> I wonder what the agenda is today.
<WardGoodwin> You can access it off the main site.  Just the realtime page hasn't been updated yet.
<WardGoodwin> http://www.icann.org/losangeles99/losangeles-details.htm
<MLangston> ah, cool.  thanks.
<MLangston> an hour for public comment on at-large membership.  cool.
<WardGoodwin> Be nice if they could put the open public comment period from yesterday in.
<WardGoodwin> And my question too...<G>
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<WardGoodwin> Good Morning John.
<JohnWilbanks> morning, everyone.
<JohnWilbanks> I, for one, am ready to go home :-)
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<WardGoodwin> Any chance on you passing on a wish?   I wish they could insert the skipped public commen period and questions form yester day...<G>
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<JohnWilbanks> That reminds me...not public comment during the BoD
<JohnWilbanks> so this is your venue
<JohnWilbanks> such as it is...
<WardGoodwin> So is the comment period on At Large Membership going to be limited to that topic?
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<WardGoodwin> We have video...<G>
<PeteBowden> I guess the agenda link is broken.
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<WardGoodwin> http://www.icann.org/losangeles99/losangeles-details.htm
<JohnWilbanks> reload the agenda
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<JohnWilbanks> it's there...
<PeteBowden> http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/icann/la/archive/agenda-110499.html
<JohnWilbanks> I just looked in the directory and it's there...
<PeteBowden> ah, must have showed up very recently :-)  just reloaded
<paulds> hrm, RV not connecting... :/
<paulds> Berkman feed seems good, but ICANN feed just hangs
<MLangston> Just submitted my comment for the open period on the at-large membership.
<MLangston> Didn't have a category for it, tho.  Could someone see that it's received appropriately?
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<WardGoodwin> Are we limited to a single question on the at large membership?
<MLangston> There's a 1000 character limit?
<MLangston> I had to cut mine drastically, and cull several points.
<MLangston> ...but at least I got across some of what I wanted to say.
<MLangston> Geez.  I thought the public comment period was supposed to begin at 9:45.  I bet they're going to talk until the break, and ignore the public comment period AGAIN.
<MLangston> (sorry.  I meant begin at 8:45)
<MLangston> *SIGH*
<MLangston> I really hope the online comments get in this time.
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<MLangston> But I doubt they will.  I doubt we'll have any comment period at all.
<MLangston> Why doesn't someone make them adhere to their agenda?  This isn't supposed to be a spectator sport.
<PeteBowden> they'll have it...  you may not like the "thank you, next..." responses, but :)
<MLangston> They were SUPPOSED to start it 5 minutes ago.  It's outrageous that they insist on just rambling on, right over the one chance the public has to directly address them, but they so strenuously adhere to their precious break periods.
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<MLangston> They present an unhearing public face online, and then perpetuate that image in person.  It's just amazing.
<urgen> results of my ICANN search engine hunt last night:  http://druk.imperma.net
<urgen> I have to be heading off to work
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<PeteBowden> but Breaks may have corporate sponsors :-)  actually, yesterday they continued thru a break, people could exit and re-enter the room during the break period but they did skip most of it
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<MLangston> How very gracious of them.
<PeteBowden> anything interested in that generic search list?
<DennisSchaefer> Spin????
<MLangston> The substantive comments is generating an OLE error.
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<JohnWilbanks> relax, we're adjusting the DB query at the moment
<JohnWilbanks> it'll be back
<JohnWilbanks> and your comment is there :-)
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<MLangston> SOrry John.  I'm just very frustrated with the BoD and their insistence on stepping on the public comment periods.
<WardGoodwin> I'm getting kicked every time I try to post
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<WardGoodwin> Except that time...<G>
<JohnWilbanks> mark, understood, we're all a little short after four days....
<JohnWilbanks> not a problem!
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<MLangston> I really wish someone would just cut their mics and give the public a chance to address them.  
<WardGoodwin2> I've had my chat connection reset several time.  Any idea what is causing it?
<MLangston> Dear Lord.  They're just NOW getting to the two agenda'd speakers?
<MLangston> They're 30 minutes behind and 15 minutes into the comment period!!!
<JohnWilbanks> ward - no idea
<JohnWilbanks> try using standard irc
<JohnWilbanks> instructions on the broadcast page
<DennisSchaefer> Morning John -- I submitted a question.
<WardGoodwin2> I may have to.  This was rock solid yesterday.
<JohnWilbanks> comments form is working again
<JohnWilbanks> we had to be patient getting the remote DB closed
<JohnWilbanks> so we didn't trash the DB.
<JohnWilbanks> but it's up
<MLangston> :) Thanks, John.
<JohnWilbanks> we've got two comments
<BenEdelman> db has been up for a coiuple minutes now...
<JohnWilbanks> one from mark, one from dennis
<BenEdelman> (and before then before too...)
<BenEdelman> sorry aout that!
<MLangston> Once again, our daily mantra:  Please don't take our frustrations with the meetings or the personalities personally.  You guys are doing a great job.
<JohnWilbanks> got it.
<JohnWilbanks> and appreciate it
<DennisSchaefer> Right -- when we hold the next meet in John Harvard's Pub, drinks are on us!
<WardGoodwin2> Second that...
<JohnWilbanks> but it is kinda like standing near the ocean
<MLangston> heh!
<JohnWilbanks> the surf hits you with spray every now and then...
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* paulds got the second round
<JohnWilbanks> but I have truly enjoyed hanging in this chat room
<JohnWilbanks> None of the usual "R U M OR F?" stuff
<MLangston> one-sentence summary of all this:  "How do we corral 5,000 malleable sheep?"
<MLangston> so John....what're you wearing? :)
<JohnWilbanks> heh
<paulds> haha
<MLangston> *CLAPCLAPCLAP* Yes, you should.
* paulds is wearing his "The Sun Never Sets on the Internet Society" T-shirt
<MLangston> Bwahahah!
* MLangston just has his Perl shirt on.
<MLangston> *boggle*  Sure.  Stack the task force with the old MAC.
<MLangston> Why am I not surprised.
<MLangston> Of course, the old MAC is the NC and a ICANN BoD member.
<paulds> that's fine as long as I get to pick which ones of the mget selected. :)
<JohnWilbanks> I'm getting ready to read your comments
<JohnWilbanks> after amadeau
<MLangston> Of course he's going to endore that process.  He's a member of the old MAC and now a Board member.
<MLangston> Thanks, John.
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<paulds> might as well take a nap then, John.
<MLangston> *laugh*
<paulds> we'll poke you when he stops
<MLangston> It'd be a shame if someone tripped over his mic cord. :)
<paulds> hahah
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<MarkKern> is audio down on primary feed, or do I have something wrong with my system?
<MLangston> Mark:  maybe your system's allergic to Amadeu. :)
<JohnWilbanks> audio looks good on the feeds here, but we're only serving vid from here
<JohnWilbanks> tommy, how's it look in cambridge?
<WardGoodwin2> Try the Berkman feed.  Mucho better.
<MLangston> Mark:  I'm on secondary and audio's ok.
<paulds> Mark, try stoping and restarting the connection.  Sometimes it flakes out
<JohnWilbanks> and btw, hats off to tommy graham, our intrepid server operator
<TGraham> tx.
<JohnWilbanks> back at the center
<MLangston> Yes, thanks Tommy.
<paulds> and yes, Berkman feed is bettah
<AnupamChander> Would someone kindly state the underlying issue being discussed here?
<MLangston> I love it. "Let's go to public comments.  But first, why don't the board members prattle on aimlessly?"
<WardGoodwin2> The longer they talk the less time for us and the audience...?
<MLangston> Yes.
<MLangston> That way, they can say, "Yes, we had a public comment period.  The board members just happened to talk during the entire time."
<MLangston> ??? Didn't she JUST say they were going to do the online comments?  This isn't them.
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<MLangston> What part of "take the online comments" does the board have trouble understanding?
<DennisSchaefer> Go Mark
<MLangston> Good.
<MLangston> Go Dennis.
<JohnWilbanks> just turned up the volume on primary video
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<JohnWilbanks> but it's up about as far as I can take it now
<PeteBowden> Good job John :-)
<DennisSchaefer> John- yay!
<JohnWilbanks> that's my voice there :-)
<MLangston> BS.  The bylaws state that the AL board memberrs must go inactive.
<PeteBowden> you were on camera too
<JohnWilbanks> uhoh
<JohnWilbanks> now the stalkers will come.
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<MLangston> heh!
<JohnWilbanks> as they know I'm part of the global internet conspiracy
<MLangston> John, there're 95,000 people outside who'd like to follow you home. :)
<WardGoodwin2> You too...
<PeteBowden> I don't even think that 1000 people are 'active' in ICANN
<DennisSchaefer> John, are you one of those '666.dot com folks'?
<PeteBowden> oh no, now we're going to get into the tri-lateral commission again
<MLangston> heh.
<DennisSchaefer> Theresa answers herown questions now????
<MLangston> Apparently.
<MLangston> Yeah.  Like ISOC.
<MLangston> Mmmmmm...spam.
<PeteBowden> <I don't like spam...>
<WardGoodwin2> It's pretty good if you fry it fairly crisp and with cheese...
<WardGoodwin2> GRIN
<paulds> and lotsa ketchup
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<DennisSchaefer> Heya Sri
<PeteBowden> US Deep Pockets ;-)
<SrikanthNarra> hi dennis
<MLangston> ...ISOC...
<paulds> argh, Berkman feed gettin all flakey now...
<PeteBowden> the fear, NSI takes over :-)
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<MarkKern> I can hear!
<MLangston> Yeah, like there aren't legitimacy problems with the rest of the AL structure.
<MarkKern> I like the camera quality on the Beckman site better!
<SrikanthNarra> here he goes
<MLangston> who's thing?
<MLangston> erm, this?
<SrikanthNarra> icann and values ...lol..
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<MLangston> How about numerical diversity?  How about having individuals on the board instead of company and organization reps?
<DennisSchaefer> Sure: exclude individuals, but .....
<MLangston> NO!
<paulds> oh geez
<paulds> we'd better make sure we have equal numbers of tall and short people too...
<WardGoodwin2> I have a question in the comment section...
<MLangston> "Is everyone happy with this?  yes?  Good.  let's move on."
<MLangston> How do they come UP with this?!?
* SrikanthNarra Laughs-Out-Loud!!
<PeteBowden> and the registry .. ;-)
<WardGoodwin2> Happy... No... I wouldn't describe it that way.   Violently ill would be closer...
<paulds> forgot to do the agenda item?
<SrikanthNarra> i move that we request permission of scott adams and rename dnso as dogbert's new support organisation
<MLangston> Oops.  Submitted that twice, with a typo (oging for going).   D'oh.
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<PeteBowden> How about we just vote Dogbert onto the board :-)
<MLangston> "We want to be satisfied that it's satisfactory"???
<MLangston> I want A = A.
<JohnWilbanks> scribe notes are fresh
<SrikanthNarra> along with the other bunch of pointed haired big bosses on this board
<SrikanthNarra> he will be ready to take over the world
<MLangston> Hey, here's a novel thought:  Why don't we have a board full of people technically competent to make policy decisions for the Internet?
<MLangston> What a concept!
<MLangston> There's no confidence now!  How is that going to help?
<MLangston> Gaaaaah!
<PeteBowden> Those who can do...  those who can't ... :-) well...
<SrikanthNarra> but then the pointed haired boses would have nothing to mess up
<SrikanthNarra> mark
<MLangston> Fine with me, Sri. :)
<MLangston> This isn't supposed to be their sandbox.
<WardGoodwin2> Yippyyyyyy
<DennisSchaefer> Wow  Good question:  SBA!
<JohnWilbanks> mark, I hid one of your questions
<JohnWilbanks> as they are the same quesiton
<JohnWilbanks> makes my life easier
<MLangston> John:  Heh.  Thanks.  I accidentally submitted it twice.
<MLangston> Coffee hasn't kicked in yet.
<WardGoodwin2> I knew I should have asked 'Who can fire Board Members?'...
<MLangston> Now, if you could just spell "going" correctly for me. :)
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<MLangston> Go SBA!
<JohnWilbanks> gonna be a short open comment period
<MLangston> Of course.
<JohnWilbanks> reload your comment forms
<PeteBowden> Office of Advocacy :-)
<JohnWilbanks> and use the appropriate tags
<MLangston> Thanks, John.
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<MLangston> *snicker*
<PeteBowden> There should be at least 3 board members sitting up there viewing the real time chat... but then, I wouldn't be surprised if they though the idea of 'online chat'  to be a foreign concept
<SrikanthNarra> blah blah blah - i apprecieate difficulites of registeries..blah..
<SrikanthNarra> what about appreciating the difficulites of individuals
<PeteBowden> Thanks, next :-)
<MLangston> It always amazes me that people can make nooise for hours and say absolutely nothing.
<DennisSchaefer> Submitted another one, John -- but not sure if there's limit of 1 per person.
<SrikanthNarra> thats how they get on the board mark
<WardGoodwin2> I submitted a follow up to the public Comment section.
<MLangston> Any way to limit in-person comments to 1,000 characters like we are?
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<SrikanthNarra> the less they know the more time they have to play politics and join the board
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<MLangston> "Your input's irrelevant, we've already discussed this.  Next!"
<PeteBowden> Why, because the internet was created here.
<PeteBowden> HAHAHA!  He's been served...
<DennisSchaefer> What do we do with THAT?
<WardGoodwin2> Cat litter.
<MLangston> BWAHAHAH!
<PeteBowden> I wonder what gTLD that would be...  maybe it is .www or .web :-)  sounds like something that Chris A would do
<SrikanthNarra> mark did you hear anything icann on copyrighting our ideas on lists
<MLangston> it's .web.
<MLangston> IODesign posted that they were suing.
<PeteBowden> BLAAHAHA ...  was that Ambler?
<MLangston> Sri:  Of course not.
<MLangston> Pete:  Errr...don't remember.
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<MLangston> Hi Diane.
<TGraham> hi dc.
<SrikanthNarra> how many board members do u think know of the list and what goes on it ?
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<paulds> hi diane! :)
<urgen> yah! 17 ppl
<urgen> nice show
<dianecabell> Hi, folks.  I'm just here to post the MAC proposal.  Pardon the abuse. :-)
<SrikanthNarra> a techie talking atlast
<PeteBowden> How many board members use the web? :-)
<SrikanthNarra> hush pete ! :)
<dianecabell> Oops. won't fit.  bye.
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<MLangston> Pete:  "The web?  You mean that Internet thing?"
<MLangston> :)
* SrikanthNarra Laughs-Out-Loud!!
<PeteBowden> You know, that web page thing :-)
<SrikanthNarra> the thing that flows thru the browser ?
<MLangston> Wow.  They're hiring humans to read the letters now?
<MLangston> I wonder if the board's allergic to them.
<PeteBowden> Forward to NSI :-)
<SrikanthNarra> mark maybe we should send them the written letters
<MLangston> Yep.
<SrikanthNarra> amen !
<PeteBowden> Dear ICANN, please transfer the "COM" domain to me :-) thank you
<WardGoodwin2> Bad enough when we get somewhat sarcastic here.  But there doing it there...<G>
<SrikanthNarra> here we go another new procedure so they can "make new mistakes" and ignore it !
<MLangston> Wonder how they'd react if they knew I know someone who has root on F.
<SrikanthNarra> i wonder how they are going to rig the independent review committee
<MLangston> Wow.  Tony's older than I had imagined him being.
<MLangston> Sri:  MAC members.
<PeteBowden> There are many people in the U.S. which would love the privacy laws of the EU to be enforced on the whois database
<DennisSchaefer> Ben:  any idea why I don't show up on the remote participant list?
<DennisSchaefer> ICANN isn't subject to US law:  It's all contractual agreements between people.
<PeteBowden> ICANN is physically present in the US as is most of the internet resources, I would think there would be a hard time arguing the 'not being subject to US law' argument
<OthoRoss> Sorry if this has already been covered, but any discussion yet on minimum requirements for At-Large membership?
<urgen> and agreements are what is begin neglected
<MLangston> Go CDT!
<paulds> wah... gf here... gotta go to lunch.
<paulds> bbl
<MLangston> Oh, he's not the CDT person.
<MLangston> bye Paul.
* paulds is away: (lunch) [BX-MsgLog On]
<MLangston> Laugh it away, ignore another serious issue.
<MLangston> Feh.
<MLangston> Or, as Dogbert would do, [handwave] "Bah!"
<DennisSchaefer> Good question, Sri!
<MLangston> Otho:  you missed it.
<SrikanthNarra> thanks
<OthoRoss> OK, I'll check the archives & scribe's notes.
<PeteBowden> As Dogbert would say...  "OUT!  OUT! You demons of stupidity!" <meant only for humor value>
<WardGoodwin2> Perhaps we should phrase our questions so that it's a yes or no answer.  (not that it would work..)
<MLangston> heh.
<MLangston> Ward: "Is the ICANN Board ignoring substantive issues?"
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<MLangston> they're missing the whole point.
<PeteBowden> Ah... that was sortof an answer....  the EFF is an appropriate place for some of the mentioned issues
<WardGoodwin2> Ignoring...No.  Sidestepping.  Deliberatly avoiding direct answers.  Yes.
<MLangston> The point of that question was whether ICANN's scope forbids them from controlling any policy for the net.
<PeteBowden> pinky
<MLangston> Narf!
<JohnWilbanks> scribe is fresh
<MLangston> The guy was trying to say, "Where does ICANN's reach end?
<SrikanthNarra> damn congestion
<AnupamChander> In regard to the issue of whether ICANN is subject to U.S. law:  ICANN is a nonprofit corporation organized under California Nonprofit Public Benefit Corporation Law.  It has also obtained tax-exempt status under ¤Ê501 (c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code of the U.S. federal statutes.  As such, its subject, at minimum, to the laws of California and the United States for such corporations.
<MLangston> ...and they're just leeting it rush past.
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<SrikanthNarra> anupam u obviously underestimate day jones
<SrikanthNarra> why do u think icann goes to the edge of bankrupcy to keep paying them ?
<MLangston> Oh no!  They don't want to overrun their break time.
<MLangston> Eventhough they sucked up 20 minutes of designated comment this morning, and most of it yesterday.
<SrikanthNarra> congestion
<DennisSchaefer> Anupam:  yesterday I asked if Board members and officers were expected to refrain from attempting to influence legislation. Have you heard this mentioned?
<PeteBowden> Participation amoung themselves, as it has been for the most part already :-)
<SrikanthNarra> whats happening
<MLangston> Sri:  Break.
<MLangston> It's on the agenda.  The agenda must be respected.
<SrikanthNarra> oh kewl when it starts to get hot they run for break
<PeteBowden> <respected, as to the break>
<SrikanthNarra> we should call scott adams he could create a new book out of this mess
<AnupamChander> Dennis, I'm a newbie to the conference, so I haven't heard about that.
<WardGoodwin2> Could use that open comment periond that was on the agenda yesterday.
<OthoRoss> While we're on break, has anybody heard any news about the new cybersquat bill that just passed the House?
<DennisSchaefer> Anupam:   My question wasn't read, but I really wonder -- especially now that the Merkle Foundation is making grants.
<MLangston> I'm so glad the Board cares enough to not only eat away at public comment periods, but to spend most of them talking themselves and ignoring the issues raised by the public.
<WardGoodwin2> What the heck.  I'll ask here.<G>
<MLangston> It ensures my confidence in the Board and in ICANN.
<WardGoodwin2> Who if anyone has the authority to remove a board member?
<MLangston> Ward:  The board.
<MLangston> That's it.
<SrikanthNarra> i can not get audio anyone else having same problem ?
<DennisSchaefer> Sri:  I'm fine
<WardGoodwin2> Ditto
<MLangston> The only other way is to have the US Government disband ICANN as a corporation, revoke their charter, or take legal action against them.
<MLangston> Otherwise, the board is untouchable.
<WardGoodwin2> And the court can do what?  Can it
<AnupamChander> Dennis, you can e-mail me about this at: achander@asu.edu
<MLangston> And, it's impossible to start a derivative action against them, so members of ICANN can't sue ICANN.
<MLangston> Besides, the only official "Members" are the board members of ICANN and the SOs.
<WardGoodwin2> Short of disbanding the corp, What can the courts do to them?
<MLangston> Ward:  I believe the courts could restrict their actions.
<SrikanthNarra> they seem to be ignoring mark dennis and my comments completely
<MLangston> They could also revoke their tax-exempt and/or nonprofit status.
<SrikanthNarra> pretending they did not recieve them
<AnupamChander> Courts will sometimes enforce contracts; it's called "specific performance."
<MLangston> Sri:  Of course.  Our comments aren't of any consequence or value.  They don't want to address them, because they're embarassing and they can't answer them.
<JohnWilbanks> folks, this chat during the board is not official
<JohnWilbanks> just fyi
<MLangston> John:  Eh?  What do you mean?
<WardGoodwin2> Is it being logged?
<urgen> I did notice it looked like the log was editted when I checked it
<SrikanthNarra> john pls help with audio
<urgen> but more it looked like just part of the file was missing or not yet posted
<SrikanthNarra> ben ?
<OthoRoss> I assume "logbot" being a "user" means automatic logging.
<DennisSchaefer> Mark -- If SBA says that ICANN is obligated as a govt contracto rto adhere to US small business legislation,  then SBA could ask Commerce to pull the contract for non-compliance.
<MLangston> Dennis:  It would never happen.  DOC has too much invested in the process.
<MLangston> Remember, DOC gave birth to ICANN.
<SrikanthNarra> even if there is a change in admistration after election ?
<MLangston> The SBA by itself can't do much.  Now, if the SBA and several other organizations got together...
<SrikanthNarra> how does merkle get funds ?
<MLangston> Or, perhaps, some governmental oversight board took issue with what ICANN was up to...
<DennisSchaefer> Mark:  I agree it's unlikely:  but what SBA did yesterday was really unlikely too.
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<SrikanthNarra> i like the oversight angle
<JohnWilbanks> it'll still be logged
<MLangston> Dennis:  Very true.  It may be the first in a series of actions against ICANN;  it may be nothing at all.  We'll just have to wait and see.
<SrikanthNarra> with cilton telling reps that the squatter bills not right
<JohnWilbanks> but it's officially unofficial
<SrikanthNarra> maybe reps will pull a fast one on him and father of internet
<MLangston> I find it hard to believe that if Congress won't take action against ICANN, that the SBA could move the government to action.
<JohnWilbanks> if that makes any sense
<JohnWilbanks> at all
<JohnWilbanks> we're going to have some audio back any second
<JohnWilbanks> minor problem due to harvard network policy
<JohnWilbanks> on roaming ethernet
<SrikanthNarra> thank you john
<JohnWilbanks> killed our server ports
<JohnWilbanks> will inform when running
<WardGoodwin2> Darn students...<G>
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<WardGoodwin2> Be nice if the chat logs did a word wrap...<G>
<WardGoodwin2> Now I regret the 'paragraphs' I typed...
<SrikanthNarra> mark dennis do u think the partisan fight could act on icann ?
<MLangston> Sri:  What do you mean?
<SrikanthNarra> with clinton threatening the squatter bills
<SrikanthNarra> plus with gore having father of internet image
<SrikanthNarra> do u think republicans will go after icann ?
<MLangston> Nope.  ICANN's shown no inclination whatsoever to even consider parallel activity in Congress.  Why should they care now?
<WardGoodwin2> Gore make a poor reflection of Postel...
<SrikanthNarra> i am talking in terms of oversight committee on icann by congress
<MLangston> I believe the Republican Party would be a good bet for rallying support against ICANN.  Republicans typically abhor this kind of control over capitalism.
<SrikanthNarra> but they are pro big business - aren't they ?
<MLangston> Congress is already keeping an eye on ICANN.  It just happens that the Congressperson who brought those actions against them was the representative from NSI's home state, so most people viewed it as purely political.
<MLangston> And now, with NSI on board, that'll cease as well.
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<WardGoodwin2> I see no major differences in the Rep/Dem.  The spin is different but the results are the same.  Money talks.
<MLangston> Sri:  Republicans are pro big business, but they're also adamantly opposed to government or other regulatory bodies (ICANN) dictating to them how they can conduct themselves.
<MLangston> ICANN is exactly the sort of thing Republicans dislike.
<DennisSchaefer> Mark-Sri:  I'm back now.   Maybe we should all start writing to the SBA asking for protection of our rights as small business types on the Net?
<MLangston> Dennis:  Good idea, but I'm not a businessperson.
<MLangston> My domain names are for personal use.
<SrikanthNarra> i have both
<WardGoodwin2> Good point Dennis,  They have certianly be stand up types here.
<SrikanthNarra> i will join u
<SrikanthNarra> plus i might be moving back to my country
<SrikanthNarra> might add some international prespective as well :)
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<MLangston> I think the DNRC, the EFF, the SBA, possibly the DMA, and other groups may form a bipartisan opposition to ICANN.
<PeteBowden> and they didn't give him one of their standard 'put it off' replies :-)
<SrikanthNarra> a gues mark or more than a hunch ?
<SrikanthNarra> brb
<MLangston> Sri:  A guess, but it wouldn't hurt to agitate these groups in that direction.
<MLangston> Having left- and right-leaning groups join together against something like ICANN sends a pretty strong message.
<MLangston> Perhaps the ACLU would get involved.
<WardGoodwin2> I'ld like to see a knock down drag out fight between the new and the old board.   But I like to daydream.
<PeteBowden> oh boy, pat on the back period...
<MLangston> You'd just get professional wrestling.  And it'd be about as realistic.
<MLangston> Oh, of course.  They spend the first hour of any meeting congratulating each other.  It's mandatory.
<SrikanthNarra> ACLU doesnot have email Mark
<MLangston> Sri:  Ah, but they do.
<SrikanthNarra> got tried of knocking on their door
<SrikanthNarra> they do ?
<MLangston> The local offices do.
<SrikanthNarra> i know they send out with aol accounts
<MLangston> I know the San Francisco chapter does.
<SrikanthNarra> but those do not receive
<SrikanthNarra> everytime i send a donation i receive a thank you email but any email sent as reply bounces
<PeteBowden> hah...  can't meet now, can't meet then... :-)
<WardGoodwin2> Perhaps a set calendar and if you can't make the dates don't be on the board...<G>
<MLangston> exactly.
<MLangston> WHere are they planning on meeting this time, Mars?
<SrikanthNarra> no pyramids i guess
<WardGoodwin2> Now that would be some lag...<G>
<PeteBowden> Is this for a board meeting or for an ICANN general meeting?
<SrikanthNarra> next is african safari
<PeteBowden> African Sarafi?
<PeteBowden> err Safari
<MLangston> ...at the last minute?  It's half a year away!
<PeteBowden> and he's certainly a technical person :-)
<AnupamChander> Couldn't the schedule for the next meeting be coordinated via e-mail?
<DennisSchaefer> John:  I submitted another question:  Is there a 1-per  limit?
<MLangston>  No.  They don't have time to deal with email.
<PeteBowden> there's no comment
<PeteBowden> no comment period in the Board meeting
<PeteBowden> email?  that would require a computer ;-)
<MLangston> Besides, these are just administrative details.  All the actual, substantial decisions were made behind closed doors last night.
<MLangston> What we get today is an orchestrated show.
<AnupamChander> Wow, Mark.  I hope that isn't true.
<WardGoodwin2> Mark that's a far to cynical and realistic attitude...<G>
<PeteBowden> Maybe they should ask the board members to change their phones to vibrate or turn them off
<WardGoodwin2> Probally calling each other...  To avoid the mic's...<G>
<PeteBowden> There were VERY FEW people in the audience yesterday that had audible phones...  most were very quiet, it's a pity some people don't have that ability or think about going to a quiet mode
<PeteBowden> The public mics have been removed
<DennisSchaefer> That's the problem with transparency:  you have to rehearse everything in private before it has a chance to catch you off guard in public.
<MLangston> Yep.  Heaven forbid they actually let people see how they make decisions.
<SrikanthNarra> gosh the location thing still going on
<MarkBabiarz> Orlando sounds good to me!
<DennisSchaefer> Who submits the proposals?  Members of the Board?
<MLangston> I think anyone can.
<WardGoodwin2> I think they are fishing for someone to sponser the meeting...<G>
<DennisSchaefer> OK:  Esther forever!
<PeteBowden> No, there probably won't be one in the US for a couple years now...
<DennisSchaefer> Executive Committee?????????  More bureaucracy!
<MLangston> GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!
<MLangston> So the ExCom can act as the entire board!
<MLangston> There goes the influence of the At-Large direcotrs.
<MLangston> That was slick.
<MLangston> Create an ExCom, give them the powers of the full board, and sidestep the At-Large members entirely.
<MLangston> Oh, and hand-pick the ExCom.
<MLangston> Of course.
<MLangston> Absolutely amazing.
<MLangston> I'm just shocked.
<SrikanthNarra> where are the ralph folks ?
<SrikanthNarra> any ideas what the press is reporting  ?
<MLangston> Beats me.  Doesn't matter, the public can't comment on theseproceedings.
<MLangston> This'll be interesting.  They'll either neuther the ExCom, or move to change that bylaw right now.
<SrikanthNarra> required qualities :- wear a armani suit
<SrikanthNarra> and have high school drama experience
<PeteBowden> Does band or choir count? :-)
<SrikanthNarra> the proposal just presented and they have already made search and found the person
<SrikanthNarra> more like puppet show pete
<PeteBowden> someone that is multicultural :-)
<SrikanthNarra> more europeans :)
<MLangston> Can a non-US citizen be the CEO of a US corporation?
<SrikanthNarra> mark is there no comment  period on these type of decision ?
<SrikanthNarra> of its entirely board decision
<MLangston> Sri:  Nope.  They're making the decisions now.
<SrikanthNarra> hmm...wonder who will be funding this guy :)
<SrikanthNarra> i thought they did not have money for a few megs of website
<MLangston> The At-Large membership will be, of course.
<SrikanthNarra> stage 2
<SrikanthNarra> the scene lifts again
* paulds is back from the dead. Gone 0 hrs 55 min 37 secs
* paulds volunteers to be CEO.
<SrikanthNarra> paulds do u have high school drama experience
<paulds> well
<SrikanthNarra> and totally clueless about internet
<paulds> I ran the light & sound once
<paulds> sadly no, not clueless enuf
<SrikanthNarra> wrong u r intellegent enough to use chat
<DennisSchaefer> I guess the IDNO's petition for reconsideration got lost?
<SrikanthNarra> disqualified
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<paulds> sigh
<MLangston> Did they just make Amadeu chair of the committee on conflicts on interest?!?!?!?!?!?
<MLangston> He's a walking conflict of interest!
* SrikanthNarra Laughs-Out-Loud!!
<MLangston> Dennis:  It's not on the agenda.
<MLangston> You actually thought they meant what they said when they'd deal with it there?
<PeteBowden> Care to elaborate on why you feel he has a conflict of interest?
<MLangston> That's delusional.
<PeteBowden> ... or "is"
<SrikanthNarra> but been surprising sensible at times this time
<SrikanthNarra> has he not mark ?
<MLangston> Pete:  He consistently acts in his own best interest, or the interest of CORE, or his "association".
<MLangston> Sri:  Only in the light of comparison with the rest of the board.
<SrikanthNarra> *sign*
<SrikanthNarra> hear hear !
<DennisSchaefer> Mark: Thanks -- I didn't even see the Recon  subject on the agenda.
<SrikanthNarra> more like a radio show where both members know the scripts but talk for sake of audience
<SrikanthNarra> whats with udrp voting ?
<SrikanthNarra> is it not agenda or they going to pull a fast one at the end of day
<SrikanthNarra> here goes a short comment
<SrikanthNarra> anyone has a idea where merkle gets funds from ?
<SrikanthNarra> do they seek donations ?
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<DennisSchaefer> SRi:  it's proably a private foundation funded either by a bequest, or by a yearly contribution from an estate or company.  Only public foundations seek donations as far as I know.
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<MLangston>   /quit
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<SrikanthNarra> but the doner  get tax credit right ?
<SrikanthNarra> donator i mean
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<SrikanthNarra> Ben will this end soon and thats it ?
<SrikanthNarra> or is there something after they adjourn ?
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<DennisSchaefer> Sri:  don't know this for a fact.  Assume the source gets the deduction: if public, the
<DennisSchaefer> individual, if private, the estate or company.
<SrikanthNarra> it would be interesting to know the effect of icann board influencing legislature on their tax dedcutions :)
<DennisSchaefer> Sri:  that's why I asked about influencing legislation yesterday.  Too bad the question wasn't picked up.
* paulds is away: (brb) [BX-MsgLog On]
<SrikanthNarra> *sign*
<SrikanthNarra> is esther thanking us ???
<SrikanthNarra> gosh gasp !
<PeteBowden> oh please
<SrikanthNarra> nah it must be the other actors in room
<WardGoodwin2> Grin...
<PeteBowden> what comes to mind is "kiss off..."
<SrikanthNarra> gosh !
<DennisSchaefer> That's you, John!   Good work!
<SrikanthNarra> mark is missing this grande finally
<SrikanthNarra> finale :)
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<SrikanthNarra> here it goes the change due to online comments
<SrikanthNarra> all the changes that are made behind the closed doors after the work has been done
<SrikanthNarra> after the public version is done
<SrikanthNarra> now called changes due to online comments and input
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<SrikanthNarra> Wow
<SrikanthNarra> thankfully they attributed the changes to registers .
<SrikanthNarra> bye folks.
<SrikanthNarra> will join you all to watch the spin episode with press later
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<DennisSchaefer> Is there a press conference scheduled?
* paulds is back from the dead. Gone 0 hrs 21 min 56 secs
* JohnWilbanks is not ignoring you, just doing some html
* JohnWilbanks wants to finish up and pack it up ASAP
<JohnWilbanks> thanks to gawd, we don't have to set up again tonight
<JohnWilbanks> just pack!
<DennisSchaefer> John:  Boston chilled down today, but will warm up again tomorrow.
<paulds> been very windy for days though. :/
<JohnWilbanks> it's only gonna get colder
<JohnWilbanks> as a tennessee boy, the weather in boston
<JohnWilbanks> is not my favorite part of the city
<DennisSchaefer> I'm from south, too:  I've never adapted to winter here.
<PeteBowden> I'm sure they spoke with several of the people in the NSI registrar :-)
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<DennisSchaefer> We've moved from monopoly to 'special rights competition'  --  catchy phrase from Amadeu .
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<JohnWilbanks> I'm leaving the chat now, you folks take care
<paulds> cya john
<JohnWilbanks> and email me if you want to do some bluesky talks
<JohnWilbanks> about how to do remote participation better
<JohnWilbanks> paul, we're on for beers sometime next week
<JohnWilbanks> bye
<paulds> right-o :)
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<WardGoodwin2> Time to go, there's real work to be done...<G>
<WardGoodwin2> Ben, You, John, and the rest of the Bergman crew have done an excellent job and I thank you.
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<WardGoodwin2> As a final comment on the procedings in general.  All in all it went well.  The board could have been much more responsive to some of the online questions considering the inability of our haveing followup questions or being able to use the mic to repoint the question.
<WardGoodwin2> A small suggestion for the next meeting...  You might want to consider a displaying the online chat on a large whiteboard that is legible to the room.
<urgen> we may even 'behave' then
<paulds> hah
<WardGoodwin2> Grin... the though crossed my mind as well...
<urgen> actually it would be easy to set up a peanut gallery channel
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<WardGoodwin2> Or as an alternative have the person reading the comments reading the chat and act as an avatar for the questioner for the purpose of followup.
<urgen> I could go for that
<WardGoodwin2> Goodbye all.  I have enjoyed it.
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<paulds> clap clap
<paulds> Hm
<paulds> I guess he thinks "businesslike" is a positive term...
<MarkKern> bye bye all!
<paulds> bye
<MarkBabiarz> Thanks for video and chat
<MarkBabiarz> See ya all next time
<MarkBabiarz> Thanks John, Ben
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<paulds> final thanks to Berkman folks.
* paulds yawns and stretches.
<paulds> see you all around the Net...
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<tommyg> bye all.
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