ICANN Board of Directors Meeting - Real-Time Discussion Logs
June 4, 2001 - Stockholm, Sweden

Nickname - Message
<Len> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 02:28) good morning joe, kendall, gary-- and of course the ever-industrious Ben, Rebecca and Amanda
<GaryOsbourne> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 02:28) g'day
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 02:28) good morning Len. Round up the usual suspects! It's show time.
<Len> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 02:31) What a shocker yesterday-- Lynn, Stubbs, Crocker, Crispin and Cerf-- all on the record and making it quite clear that it is intentional. Odd that now alt roots are at least "competitors" there is no talk of monoploy and antitrust by ICANN-- altho the Cerf/Crocker line on refusing to deal withus gets close.
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 02:32) I'm in the process of transcribing all of Karl's quotes from the meeting yesterday. I want to make sure all those "offline" questions get answered.
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 02:34) Hi Leah and Nobuo
<RebeccaNesson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 02:34) Carl Bildt's status report on the At Large Study Committee is linked off the agenda for this meeting and is available at http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/icann/stockholm/archive/bildt-statusreport.html
<NobuoSakiyama> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 02:34) Hi
<LeahG-originalBIZ> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 02:35) Hey, Kendall
<LeahG-originalBIZ> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 02:35) the zombie has arrived
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 02:36) me too... I'm going to have fun at work tomorrow! LOL :)
<LeahG-originalBIZ> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 02:36) work????
<LeahG-originalBIZ> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 02:36) hehe
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 02:36) the thing I do in between movies ;)
<Dassa> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 02:37) mmm...seems I can get the media player but not the real clips.
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 02:38) I had to reload the page a few times Dassa
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 02:38) I had the same trouble. They didn't update the link for Real yet.. it still said 060301
<RebeccaNesson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 02:38) All of the video links are working at this point
<Dassa> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 02:38) Okay, got it now.
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 02:40) Hi Sotiris
<baptista> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 02:41) hi
<baptista> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 02:42) not many people there
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 02:42) Sotiris have you cloned yourself?
<SotirisSotiropoulos1> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 02:42) how can i be here twice?
<Dassa> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 02:42) Ghost.
<SotirisSotiropoulos1> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 02:43) odd.
<GaryOsbourne> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 02:43) Ohh no, chat channel instability. we're doomed!
<Dassa> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 02:43) You could kill it but it most likely time out eventually
<SotirisSotiropoulos1> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 02:43) oh well... as long as he doesn't say anything.
<SotirisSotiropoulos1> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 02:44) Did Vint ask my question?
<IvanVachowski> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 02:44) operator. can I communicate with ICANN board during "open microphone session"
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 02:44) No. Did you resubmit it?
<SotirisSotiropoulos1> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 02:44) no. he did say he would read it.
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 02:44) http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/icann/stockholm/realtime/ask.asp
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 02:44) If you go to that URL Ivan you can submit questions
<IvanVachowski> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 02:45) thanks
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 02:47) when did Vint say he would read it?
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 02:47) Did you send him email?
<SotirisSotiropoulos1> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 02:47) he didn't say when. just that he would.
<baptista> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 02:47) ya you can ask questions which never get read. why bother
<SotirisSotiropoulos1> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 02:48) let's see.
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 02:48) how did you communicate w/ Vint? via email?
<SotirisSotiropoulos1> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 02:48) yes
<SotirisSotiropoulos1> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 02:48) it went to the ga ML too.
<Len> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 02:48) which email address for Cerf?
<SotirisSotiropoulos1> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 02:49) vcerf@mci
<SotirisSotiropoulos1> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 02:49) .net
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 02:49) You can find all of their addresses here: http://www.icann.org/general/abouticann.htm#BoardofDirectors
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 02:52) Joops not even here!
<GaryOsbourne> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 02:53) Guess left over from last night
<GaryOsbourne> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 02:53) It was on there then
<GaryOsbourne> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 02:53) or was that two nights ago
<SotirisSotiropoulos1> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 02:54) this s good for us.
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 02:54) yes.. it's about time
<SotirisSotiropoulos1> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 02:54) for all individuals
<Len> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 02:54) someone should email joop and tell him now
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 02:55) I will let him know. brb
<Len> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 02:55) packed session
<Len> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 02:57) Judging from the empty seats, its all been done offline
<Len> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 02:59) good point Andy-- and Cerf guillotines it
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 02:59) Good question Sotiris
<SotirisSotiropoulos1> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 02:59) thanks Kendall
<SotirisSotiropoulos1> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:00) but no answer
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:00) although, I bet you don't want to hear WIPO's response.
<SotirisSotiropoulos1> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:00) wipo
<SotirisSotiropoulos1> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:00) say that again
<LeahG-originalBIZ> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:00) It should not be a WIPO question at all
<SotirisSotiropoulos1> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:00) no it should not
<LeahG-originalBIZ> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:01) That is more a question for individual governments, not ICANN
<Len> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:01) It is now on the record-- as is the no-answer response, Sotiris
<SotirisSotiropoulos1> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:01) exactly
<Dassa> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:02) Individual governments have no authority over domain names.
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:02) I'm impressed that Vint followed through and read it though. Esther wouldn't have done that.
<SotirisSotiropoulos1> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:02) who does?
<AllenHannah> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:02) Is anyone here at the meeting?
<Dassa> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:03) Now that is the question Sotiris :)
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:03) don't hold your breath though...
<SotirisSotiropoulos1> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:03) As it stands, the ICANN is a US registered not-for-profit org.
<SotirisSotiropoulos1> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:04) California Company.
<SotirisSotiropoulos1> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:04) like any company it has stakeholders, and they can be international...
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:04) Hi Joop - they read your question
<LeahG-originalBIZ> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:04) He Joop., they read your questions
<JoopTeernstra> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:04) Hello Ben,
<SotirisSotiropoulos1> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:05) but, as an organization under law, ICANN falls under US law.
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:05) but they are the "quasi-gov't" org. that falls in the grey area between private company and gov't agency
<JoopTeernstra> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:06) I notices in the scibe notes that Hanks Kraayenbrink badly misrepresented my question to Carl Bildt. (as if I was suggesting to incorporate the Individual DN holders in the @large. If he did in fact not misrepresent me, could you amend the scribe notes?
<SotirisSotiropoulos1> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:06) nonetheless, residents of foreign nationas can purchase and own shares/property in American organizations, real estate.
<JoopTeernstra> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:06) Hi all, sorry for jumping in like this
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:07) why Joop?
<SotirisSotiropoulos1> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:07) Joop, Danny was right after your question, and he reinforced the question with the GA motion.
<SotirisSotiropoulos1> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:07) the board may consider it during their session.
<LeahG-originalBIZ> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:07) Sotiris, it's a public benefit non-profit. There are no shares
<JoopTeernstra> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:07) sotiris, yes, that was very good. But did you read the scribe notes?
<SotirisSotiropoulos1> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:08) oh, but there are..
<JoopTeernstra> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:08) Hello John
<SotirisSotiropoulos1> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:08) they are called atlarge members
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:08) Mueller-Maguhn response: Could have a page on ICANN web site explaining how to create new constituencies.
<LeahG-originalBIZ> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:08) Sotiris, that is a very different thing
<JohnVorstermans> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:08) Hi Joop
<SotirisSotiropoulos1> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:08) no joop, i did not read the scribes.
<LeahG-originalBIZ> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:08) and the bylaws have stated categorically that they are not members by CA definition
<SotirisSotiropoulos1> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:08) is it Leah?
<LeahG-originalBIZ> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:09) yes, extremely different
<JoopTeernstra> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:09) Hans K. was quotes as saying that I suggested incorporating the IDNH ers in the at large.
<SotirisSotiropoulos1> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:09) is there not a definition of property in US law?
<LeahG-originalBIZ> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:09) Sotiris, property definitions, yes. But courts have said that domain names are services
<SotirisSotiropoulos1> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:10) what courts? and why do trademarks qualify as entitlements to domains then?
<SotirisSotiropoulos1> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:10) a federal court?
<LeahG-originalBIZ> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:11) federa and state courts, Sotiris
<SotirisSotiropoulos1> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:11) where is the codified definition?
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:11) But, USPTO ruled that TLDs cant be trademarked
<LeahG-originalBIZ> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:11) I'm not an atty, Sotiris. You would have to do a search
<Len> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:11) They must be worried if they read out Sotiris and Joop questions-- anything but the repeated request to recognise a non-ICANN root and tld (.humanrights / Human RIghts Root Service). This question has been posted to every sessions's comment before each session. See further http://www.humanrights.com.au/dhr/trust.html
<SotirisSotiropoulos1> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:13) IANAL but I have many questions for any atty who wishes to step forward to answer me on these issues.
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:13) Cohen thinks it's too small... Auerbach thinks its too big
<JimWagner> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:14) how much is the budget now?
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:14) send them to Louis Touton!
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:14) 3.3 million ?
<LeahG-originalBIZ> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:14) Something over 4 mil I think
<Len> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:14) IAAB, Sotiris, and I think you know my opinion. See also http://www.com.au/dhr/app.html
<LeahG-originalBIZ> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:14) It should be posted.
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:15) http://www.icann.org/financials/proposed-budget-14may01.htm
<JimWagner> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:15) ty
<SotirisSotiropoulos1> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:15) could not access the url len
<SotirisSotiropoulos1> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:15) not found
<Len> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:15) IANAL=I Am Not A Lawyer IAAB=I Am A Barrister
<LeahG-originalBIZ> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:16) probably have to remove the bracket ] at the end of the URL
<LeahG-originalBIZ> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:16) Len, what is the difference?
<JoopTeernstra> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:16) Joking about a predictable Board. It is SAD, SAD, SAD
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:16) There is a great quote from Vint: "It's wonderful having such a predictable board"
<SotirisSotiropoulos1> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:16) sad is an understatement
<Len> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:17) sorry, left out the humanrights part, thry http://www.humanrights.com.au/app.html
<baptista> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:17) they are becoming a joke. when you run out of dirty tricks - and ideas - goto the holo deck. does anyone else feel ashamed of being human today?
<Len> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:18) Leah, one difference is I can legally charge money for legal services, ha
<RebeccaNesson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:18) All of the proposed resolutions are linked off the agenda for this meeting and are available at http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/icann/stockholm/archive/touton-resolutions.html
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:18) Officers of the Corporation earn US $100,000 - 300,000. How much you want to bet that they NEVER choose the low end of the scale?
<JoopTeernstra> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:18) Hello Joe. No, not at all. This isn't halfway over yet.
<SotirisSotiropoulos1> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:19) I will read more later len, thanx
<SotirisSotiropoulos1> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:19) I'm with Joop on that.
<JoopTeernstra> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:19) Thanks, Sotiris. We are both sudents of history..
<baptista> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:20) yes - i feel more people are coming together. it's just such a shame - here we are - this poor little planet is falling apart - and we have goof balls running the dns. shame.
<SotirisSotiropoulos1> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:20) let's hope we can repeat it
<JoopTeernstra> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:20) we can
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:20) Louis likes being able to change the rules at will
<SotirisSotiropoulos1> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:20) :-)
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:22) he counted Louis
<baptista> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:24) is this the cerimonial reading of the minutes - such fools - could they not distrbute this earlier
<baptista> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:24) ok budget
<JoopTeernstra> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:25) No, Joe, they like to fill the public time with this. They are not goofballs, as you seem to think
<SotirisSotiropoulos1> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:25) no they are not
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:26) Hans wants to call in an airstrike
<JoopTeernstra> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:26) First he changes my citizenship..
<baptista> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:26) i know its all show - i know that - it us who are the idiots and put up with it. you shuld be getting the anarchists ready for LA - MRA - the next meeting. These people need a wakeup call from real people
<baptista> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:26) this sillyness must stop
<Len> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:27) fyi .humanrights mirror sites http://www.humanrights and http://www.site.humanrights
<JoopTeernstra> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:27) anarchists? You are only helping Crispin to push for criminalization of alt-roots
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:27) I prefer "activists" to anarchists
<baptista> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:28) i still have to get the site up len - i've been monitoring traffic off the orsc servers which i now control - there are another pack of fools - so it's been a project. i expect our dns back up tommorrow provide sexton does not jeopardize it again.
<Len> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:28) speaking of anarchists, Joe, some folks in Melbourne have the skills and the machines and may just do that
<JoopTeernstra> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:28) we are all activists of sorts
<baptista> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:28) activists anarchist - and old ladies - alot of old folks out there who would beappalled by this
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:29) if they could only understand it Joe
<Len> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:29) Actually anarchists could teach ICANN a lot about bottomsup process
<baptista> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:30) it has to be done len. i'm sorry but communication is the only thing the human race does that has virtue - most of the rest of the time your either trashing the planet or blowing each other up - not very impressive - if you lose the co-ordinated ability to communicate - well it's not a good idea
<SotirisSotiropoulos1> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:30) anarchy is not a good thing
<JoopTeernstra> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:30) Len , I strongly disagree.
<baptista> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:30) there is no such thing as anarchy - the internet demands order in communications - there are no other options
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:30) Joop is right... extremists won't help the alt.roots at all. It will further justify the criminalization by ICANN.
<Len> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:31) Anyhow if the best ICANN can do to squash Virtual Inclusive Root and millions of tlds is to roll out the americans-- stubbs, crocker, crispin, lynn cerf-- then it is all over. The rest of teh world will be immediately en garde at such american arrogance.
<SotirisSotiropoulos1> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:31) they will try to criminalize them anyway
<baptista> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:32) irrelevant - were taking real people - the same people who showed up to the summit of the americas in ottawa - policiticans - unionists - old ladies - those are real people - most of the people i've seen in the dns are spending time here paying attention to the jedi mind trick - instead of speaking to people this will affect
<JoopTeernstra> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:32) It seems to be going that way, with this predictable Board
<SotirisSotiropoulos1> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:33) In the last week I have spoke with 5 people who knew nothing of these matters..
<SotirisSotiropoulos1> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:33) spoken
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:33) I know that Sotiris. But, if we are destructive it will justify it in the eyes of the media
<baptista> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:33) yes - this will be a disgrace to america. the ones who are going to lose is bush and the other politicos.
<Len> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:33) The words "anarchy" "anarchists" seem too loaded here. Might be worth reading some history here. You might see parallels to ICANNIA.
<LeahG-originalBIZ> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:34) It will take activism
<SotirisSotiropoulos1> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:34) it will
<LeahG-originalBIZ> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:34) not anarchy
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:34) education and outreach
<LeahG-originalBIZ> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:34) KD that is part of activism
<SotirisSotiropoulos1> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:34) education and outreach are key
<baptista> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:34) thats good - we must reach out alot. i talk to the old people in my building all the time about it. most of them ended up voting - and i showed them how to use their sons and daughters , crandchildrens address to creat more people. old policitcal tricks. they loved it. you at large
<JoopTeernstra> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:35) There ar elots of parralels. Classic Power vacuum. Classic grab of the goodies. Similar to collapse of the USSR. Robber Barons grab what they can, before order and law sets in. Every year that the status quo can be maintained means big $.
<SotirisSotiropoulos1> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:35) local neighbourhood cells are a good place to start organizing
<Len> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:35) IANAE=I Am Not An Extremist. Standing up for long-standing internationally-agreed human rights standards (they call them protocols, you know) is not Extremist.
<baptista> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:36) ya - speak to your neighbour - i send out alot of faxes in nyc and canada.
<LeahG-originalBIZ> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:36) No, Len, you are an acitivist :)
<baptista> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:36) and email all my civil servants
<SotirisSotiropoulos1> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:36) In Toronto, I've been speaking up whenevr and wherever i can
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:37) what is Louis talking about?
<baptista> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:37) thats right your in toronto - i remeber - ithink
<SotirisSotiropoulos1> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:37) on the web, ive been posting to completely unrelated lists...
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:37) something about going in a dark room and rubbing his tummy 3 times?
<SotirisSotiropoulos1> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:37) we must get the word out.
<JoopTeernstra> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:37) we should exchange lists to see what we have left uncovered
<baptista> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:37) yes - i think porn groups would be a good place. lots of traffic.
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:37) LOL
<LeahG-originalBIZ> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:38) Sotiris, we need to reach the mainstream and "dumb" it down for them to understand the issues as they are affected
<SotirisSotiropoulos1> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:38) local community business associations
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:38) do we want to appeal to the masses with pr0n ?
<SotirisSotiropoulos1> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:38) exactly leah
<baptista> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:38) it true - most people on the net are busy viewing porn - were the nuts watching this shame - but we car - and they would too if they knew they could surf to suck.cum
<Len> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:38) IAAB http://www.humanrights.com.au/prof.html http://www.humanrights.com.au/current.html
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:38) graphic... but effective Joe
<SotirisSotiropoulos1> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:39) quite
<LeahG-originalBIZ> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:39) This is the guy who said in Melbourne that he saw no need for an at-large
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:39) Jedi Mind Trick
<RebeccaNesson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:39) baptista, please keep your language appropriate to the forum. thanks.
<baptista> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:39) well - gota call them like i see them - this is all old hat - people were doing the naked gif downloads back in the bbs days - nothing changes with humans.
<MmmCow> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:40) so, tucows wants .web now, eh?
<MmmCow> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:40) lol
<baptista> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:40) rebecca - were organizing so shut up and stop being a nazi or kick me off. ok - i'm making point and your not invited to the tea party
<SotirisSotiropoulos1> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:40) give Ivan a starring role in the next cartoon Kendall
<baptista> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:40) this is the problem - the constant need peopl have to control
<baptista> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:40) we have a right to protest and loudly
<SotirisSotiropoulos1> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:41) educators make a good audience for this stuff
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:41) but, that is human nature. going against the grain and all
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:42) where is Deborah tonight Sotiris?
<SotirisSotiropoulos1> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:42) "to the tables of the noble, the noble arrive uninvited"
<Len> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:42) Does anyone present object to baptista tone or comment? Jpe is right-- we are organising and cooperating and communicating. On the only forum open to us at ICANN.
<SotirisSotiropoulos1> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:42) she's asleep I think.
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:42) one day of ICANN is too much? LOL
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:42) wb Sergio
<SotirisSotiropoulos1> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:43) no, she's got to work in the morning.. I told her its archived.
<Len> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:43) We the participants here collectively share control of this forum. And that should be respected.
<baptista> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:43) we are people in common - rebecca is a servant to evil masters - here right to shame. we all know berkman are nothing more then ican clones - and i say shame on them for interfereing in our right to organize against this nonsense
<JoopTeernstra> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:43) Having sat through it many times, I can say it's no holiday :-(
<SergioBac> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:43) Godd morning all
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:43) Good morning Sergio
<baptista> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:43) you've actulally show great strength joop. you of all people have put up with alot and survived - and that include the apples i threw at you
<SotirisSotiropoulos1> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:43) hi sergioi
<LeahG-originalBIZ> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:43) hi Sergio
<MmmCow> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:44) is IOD in attendance at these meetings, in person ?
<MmmCow> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:44) anyone know?
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:44) no
<SotirisSotiropoulos1> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:44) dunno
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:44) their laywers are there
<MmmCow> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:44) Hi Kendall
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:44) Hi... is this jweb?
<MmmCow> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:44) thanks for the email
<MmmCow> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:44) no
<MmmCow> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:44) it's Lizmi
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:44) hi
<LeahG-originalBIZ> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:44) I wonder what would happen if Tucows did apply for .WEB
<SotirisSotiropoulos1> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:45) how's the tucows announcement for .web... that was interesting.
<JoopTeernstra> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:45) well, they were sweet, joe. Unlike the stuff that Mr PacificRoot has tried to do. As yoiu say, it's about control, isn't it?
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:45) I got an email from Chris yesterday.. he said he wasn't going to be there
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:45) hi Keith
<Keith> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:45) Hello all
<SotirisSotiropoulos1> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:45) hi keith
<Keith> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:45) What have I missed?
<JoopTeernstra> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:45) Hello Keith
<baptista> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:46) people have a hard time understanding that to communicate one need to establish protocol at the lowest common denominator
<MmmCow> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:46) the only way tucows could get .web, imo, is to partner with IOD ...will be interesting to watch this one play out ...lol
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:46) The approval of the budget
<JoopTeernstra> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:46) Keith. Nothing really. Vint called this Board "predictable".
<SotirisSotiropoulos1> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:46) and the 1/2 hour public forum
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:46) Vint said he loved the predictiblity of the Board
<baptista> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:46) perfect communication is based on aboslute trust with minimum interference - and co-operation must be absolute - control alomost non existent
<LeahG-originalBIZ> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:47) I certainly hope he gets advice. so far he's been way off base
<baptista> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:47) we have a good example of communication in dogs - a dog pisses to mark territory - same thing applys to domain names.
<JoopTeernstra> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:47) Joe, this is how some people have lost the trust forever.
<Keith> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:47) So it was unanimous to accept the budget?
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:47) all in favor
<baptista> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:48) humans are not much different then dogs - they identify territory and associate territory with resources.
<JoopTeernstra> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:48) No, Karl opposed and Andy abstained. :-)
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:48) the predictibility factor Joop?
<baptista> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:48) now if dogs mark the same territory we have a riot - i.e. and error in the protocol casuses failure. very simple to understand
<MmmCow> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:48) yup
<JoopTeernstra> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:49) yep. This is why it's unlikely we'll have 9 at large directors, unless the elections can be manipulated
<Len> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:49) You can never win with monopolists by appeasing them. Monopoly is illegal and you should not have to humour their fragile egos (so what if they are frightened of The Other-- get used to it, its the rest of thw world, diversity, etc)
<baptista> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:49) so - in the human perspectus with respect to communications - we have the same principle. a failure in the protocol can cause more then riots
<baptista> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:49) they can cause death
<MmmCow> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:49) manipulation? within icann? never!
<JoopTeernstra> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:49) Joe, don't you believe in civilization?
<baptista> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:50) they also illimiate the power provided by the internet to the people - i.e. death. len can tell you how many more porr human soals have been saved by the power of the internet
<baptista> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:51) these are realities - and we have a bunch of goofs about to kill it - and frankly folks i call them assholes who should be shot - and before you dare rebecca - shut up and mind your manners
<MmmCow> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:51) lol
<baptista> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:51) civilization is a temporal anomily
<baptista> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:51) is it real or memorex
<BenEdelman> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:51) Baptista, that language is not acceptable in this forum. Please restrain yourself.
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:51) LOL the subtlety of a sledgehammer
<MmmCow> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:51) lol
<MmmCow> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:52) indeed
<baptista> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:52) kick me off - i also have evidence of your ling ben - and shame on you too.
<baptista> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:52) this forum is witnessed by the people in washington - and tonight i think we should send a clear message - get lost
<baptista> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:52) the internet belongs to us and we will not tolerate it destructions
<baptista> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:53) and shame on them for that - it will never works - and the alt roots have proven that.
<BenEdelman> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:53) Baptista, I'd much prefer not to ask you to leave this forum, nor to force you to do so. I simply ask you to stay within the basic requirements described at the start of the forum.
<BenEdelman> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:53) "Profanity and personal attacks are prohibited in this forum."
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:53) So, is ICANN going to try to steal .org from existing domain name owners?
<Dassa> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:53) The clear message I get from your comments Joe is that you are extremist and not very coherent. I would also say your comments are not helpful for the cause you are supporting.
<baptista> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:53) press the button ben and show us your power. now get lost i'm making a point and your not invited
<JoopTeernstra> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:53) Joe, try to remain civilized, no matter how much doggish you might feel
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:54) why is the board reading the resolutions on our time? did they not get this stuff in advance?
<baptista> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:54) well - i'm having fun - and i really dont care if i get kicked off. this has to be said - shame on them for wasting our time and this planets time
<SotirisSotiropoulos1> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:54) please joe, the rules were posted... let's at least follow the rules among ourselves
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:54) Let's have about 1/2 hour of quiet time to read?
<baptista> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:54) ok - ok - ok
<GaryOsbourne> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:54) KD, they rarely get the stuff in enough time
<baptista> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:54) i get very frustrated - i hope you understand
<MarciaLynn> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:54) "morning" everyone
<SotirisSotiropoulos1> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:54) of course we understand.
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:55) Morning Marica
<LeahG-originalBIZ> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:55) Morning Marcia
<baptista> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:55) the dns is a matter of life and death for this planet
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:55) Marcia
<GaryOsbourne> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:55) part of how the staff controls them
<baptista> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:55) think of that
<SotirisSotiropoulos1> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:55) we all feel like that.
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:55) Joe we all get frustrated by this
<baptista> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:55) ok - time for some more brandy :)
<LeahG-originalBIZ> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:55) I'm more concerned about the IP's and RIR agreements at the moment
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:55) But, we need to focus and coordinate. Not fly off the handle
<SotirisSotiropoulos1> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:55) but our resolve is best not expressed through profanity
<baptista> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:55) yes - that's another issue
<MarciaLynn> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:55) what happened with IC ? did they agree to recognize?
<LeahG-originalBIZ> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:56) Marcia, they are going to discuss it I thi nk
<SotirisSotiropoulos1> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:56) we're waiting marcia
<JoopTeernstra> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:56) MNo they read the question , but didn't answer. This will be on the agenda in "any other business".
<LeahG-originalBIZ> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:56) It is amazing it got this far, IMO
<MarciaLynn> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:56) great, at least they didn't throw it out already, thanks
<SotirisSotiropoulos1> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:56) yes, amazing. but encouraging.
<baptista> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:56) joop you were asking me about civilized behaviour - do you think a board of directors which deceives this planet and can plung us into the dark ages is civilized?
<baptista> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:57) thats why i find entertainments in strong language.
<LeahG-originalBIZ> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:57) How many here understand the importance of the RIR issues?
<JoopTeernstra> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:57) Joe, this is called corruption. I have had a lot of life-experience with it.
<baptista> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:57) but seriously - some day the people will have control and these people will be shot - depending on how much damage they manage to do.
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:57) not really Leah
<baptista> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:58) i know joop - it just i've seen this show since world war ii - and it's time to get on with business.
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:58) are you are concerned zone transfer issues?
<LeahG-originalBIZ> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:58) The RIR's allocate all the numerical addressing blocks to the ISPs...
<LeahG-originalBIZ> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:58) UUnet, PSInet, Sprint, etc...
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:59) like the ITU for phone numbers?
<baptista> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:59) but leah - the rir are just registrars - they also have no control. the function can be redelegated.
<GaryOsbourne> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:59) er, psinet is dead
<baptista> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:59) were arguing over where we keep our central library - thats it
<LeahG-originalBIZ> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 03:59) the point is that if the agreements they sign with ICANN are restrictive, it will hurt choice much more than domain names
<JoopTeernstra> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:00) Retribution comes automatically. Let me focus on the resolution about .org for a moment
<baptista> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:00) that won't work
<LeahG-originalBIZ> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:00) ICANN controls that IANA function and has huge consequences to the globe
<GaryOsbourne> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:00) the numbers are running out, a finite resource, hence a commodity, hence a point of control
<SotirisSotiropoulos1> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:00) leah is right..
<LeahG-originalBIZ> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:00) Gary, IPV6 will increase the numbers dramatically
<SotirisSotiropoulos1> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:00) its not so much the destination that runs things, but the access
<baptista> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:00) if you don't like the librarian - change to another library. the roting is controled by isps and the major providers
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:00) IPv6 should help
<LeahG-originalBIZ> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:00) It is being implemented now
<LeahG-originalBIZ> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:01) My point...
<GaryOsbourne> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:01) if you can't get the numbers, you can't have names. And IPv6 has been coming real soon now for a long time
<Dassa> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:01) The resolution was dealing with the criteria for applications and how they are processed with regards to new RIR's and the point was made the resolution does not alter the conditions of operation or the standards for the operations of the RIR's, current or new.
<LeahG-originalBIZ> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:01) If the RIR agreements say that ISPs have to point to a particular root or set of servers in order to receive an allocation, choice is gone and ICANN rules the planet in terms of the internet
<LeahG-originalBIZ> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:02) there is a pending agreement, I think, with APNIC which restricts ISPs
<SotirisSotiropoulos1> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:02) meaning of the word "is"
<SotirisSotiropoulos1> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:02) ontology
<LeahG-originalBIZ> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:02) further point:...
<SotirisSotiropoulos1> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:02) Canadian compatriots?
<LeahG-originalBIZ> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:02) by the time anyone is aware of it, it will be a done deal
<baptista> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:03) icann will not rule the planet - ip allocations are touchy subjects. don't try pulling your agreements on me when it comes to choice. icann is a paper tiger and so is iana - these are databases - have a revolt and switch the library
<GaryOsbourne> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:03) Hey, fockler like's joe's language
<baptista> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:03) when it's a done deal - you'll have alot of pissed off people.
<GaryOsbourne> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:03) blame canada
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:03) Karl objects and Andy abstains?
<anon279> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:03) #board
<baptista> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:03) what - i have not been paying attentions - what happened?
<SotirisSotiropoulos1> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:03) yeah, us Canadians... we're cheap.
<baptista> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:03) that true
<baptista> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:04) more practical - and we keep well - must be the winters
<JoopTeernstra> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:04) No , Karl was in favour. I don't know why Andy abstained. This is supposed to be the Boards' "concession".
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:04) Ben... anon279 is pulling the same stuff that anon217 was yesterday... watch closely
<baptista> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:05) looks like the reading of the will - silent picture
<baptista> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:05) what has uncle sam given vint today
<Len> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:05) is there a crocker in the house?
<JoLane> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:05) Hello Leah, but the allocatation of the numbers doesn't restrict the content of any particular DN allocated a number, so they wouldn't rule the planet in that sense, so why would they do it?
<LeahG-originalBIZ> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:06) IT is the IP address that allows one network to speak to another. If this is controlled, all else is controlled
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:06) Guess who controls it? VeriSign!
<baptista> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:06) because they are being run by nuts who will end up embarrassing the us government - and already have. the dns is nothing in comparison to the arpas - imagine seas of arpas all terminating at boarder points - all different - multiple nat providing translation. very scary and i don't think so
<LeahG-originalBIZ> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:07) For instance, if an ISP is told it must resolve a particular TLD server or not get allocations to allow them to service their customers, the ISP has no choice of what it can offer their clients
<GaryOsbourne> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:07) new.net has shown that you can play with the words, ditto with other client sides like multilingual, and icann can't control that. But the numbers can't be messed with, hence if they control that they control the namespace
<baptista> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:08) numbers can be messed with - believe me - its a nightmare - but it may happen - watch china. numbers can be used to control better then dns.
<baptista> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:09) you may only surf with an authorized number - please submit multipass in floppy disk and present retina for user identification
<GaryOsbourne> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:09) Agreed joe. I'm talking about the current root
<LeahG-originalBIZ> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:10) exacatly. Let's say that another country is ticked at the allocation restrictions and devises their own set of numbers...
<LeahG-originalBIZ> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:10) Then you have completely broken it
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:10) That's not funny. They have already proposed that for Internet Cafes. No more anonymous surfing.
<LeahG-originalBIZ> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:10) Gary, the root has nothing to do with IP addresses
<GaryOsbourne> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:11) the net is going to balkanize as it matures, I don't see any way around that
<GaryOsbourne> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:11) Leah, I don't understand that at all
<baptista> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:11) it's already happening - companies are trying to find white nights just for protection. it's a joke.
<Keith> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:12) ICANN is about both the names and numbers anyway - and IP6 won't change any of ICANN's control - only the US Govt can currently exert any control over ICANN
<LeahG-originalBIZ> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:12) domain names are only indicators, Gary. They map to IP addresses. You can use the internet without domain names, but must have IP addresses
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:12) but they go along with anything ICANN wants Keith
<GaryOsbourne> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:12) I know that, that is what all I'm saying is predicated on
<LeahG-originalBIZ> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:12) Keith, the government wants to divest itself of the internet
<baptista> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:12) no you don't break it - you just pass it over nat - for only authorized communications - but i should shut up - may give them ideas.
<Len> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:12) Gary, btw, some people in "The Balkans" find the term balkanisation offensive.
<JoLane> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:13) I'm not so sure about that Leah
<GaryOsbourne> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:13) really? learn something new every day
<LeahG-originalBIZ> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:13) what are you not sure of Joanna
<Keith> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:14) Not always Kendall - sometimes the US Congress have given ICANN a real serve
<JoopTeernstra> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:14) well don't get too PC. I know of few regions that illustrate the problem better. Your history defines you at one point.
<JoLane> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:14) that the US government wants to divest itself of the internet
<MarciaLynn> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:14) that was rude of Vint to say that
<baptista> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:14) well - its accurate - balkanization = lack of commincations - war - look at the us and other country spy agencies - they rationalize criminal behaviour - computer break ins while they arrest kids - for pranks. does this picture look bad to you too?
<LeahG-originalBIZ> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:14) It has been stated categorically, Joanna. It was reiterated at the Feb 8th hearing in DC
<SergioBac> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:14) JoLane , I think the same
<Keith> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:15) Correct Leah - bit they need to be sure that ICANN is truly representative (of the planet) and open and transperant first - something ICANN is really struggling with
<baptista> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:15) from what i've seen i think the us wants to destroy the net - and these guys want to make a profit;
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:15) struggling? They have no clue!
<JoLane> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:15) Leah, I know what they're saying. Actions speak louder than words
<GaryOsbourne> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:16) Leah, you can access a specific dotted quad via numerous alphanumeric strings, they will never control the strings, they're beginning to understand that, hence they are ramping up control of the numbers
<baptista> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:16) because it's not open - let call the old dog by his real name - they are liars.
<baptista> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:16) cheats
<baptista> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:16) thieves
<baptista> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:16) and murders
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:16) is jweb in this chat ??
<baptista> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:16) they have sinned againts us
<LeahG-originalBIZ> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:16) Keith, what they will most likely do is simply give it away before anyone has a chance to do or say anything...
<baptista> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:16) open what?
<OFuk> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:16) Just arrived and familar words
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:16) I thought that was you
<PeterMott> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:16) Hi John
<SergioBac> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:17) Leah I don't think USgov will SO easily divest such a resource as the net
<baptista> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:17) Hi Ofuk - nice name - fits the conference
<JohnVorstermans> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:17) Hello Peter
<LeahG-originalBIZ> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:17) Sergio, you don't understand...
<OFuk> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:17) K Who would who could lol
<Keith> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:17) Could do Leah - but it seems to me that its better to try and work within ICANN than outside it - given there are few other options
<Len> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:17) Anyhow the fragmentation argument has two levels. One, at the giant american intranet level (ie ICANN) where it needs a unique root internally perhaps. Two, at the level of all the giant intranets (China global, Multinational Corporations global. etc) where as long as the roots mutually recongise each others tlds (non-colliders) it is not fragmentation but interoperability of different giant intranets
<LeahG-originalBIZ> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:17) the government WANTS to get rid of it
<JoLane> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:17) The US is giving nothing away without a fight
<PeterMott> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:17) I appear to be quite mild compared to some of these folk :-)
<baptista> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:17) maybe i could come back as the fairy god mother - we could protest using our login names
<OFuk> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:17) Is Napster offered here agian
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:18) We have a real mixed crew here tonight. :)
<OFuk> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:18) Hans
<SergioBac> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:18) Apparently.. in face of anyone. BUT not in the real. They will keep somekind of amr-long
<JohnVorstermans> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:18) I agree. :-)
<Keith> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:18) The US Govt is worried if the root server falls over, it currently "carries the can", and since the root is in the hands of volunteers they have a bit to be worried about
<SergioBac> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:18) arm lon i mean
<OFuk> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:18) Hey he's squatting
<OFuk> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:19) More meetings Aren't thjey going to run out of destinations
<Keith> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:19) Peter Mott the MildMan????
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:19) hans favours outreach? since when?
<baptista> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:19) i should go to bed - there's no more open mike right
<JoopTeernstra> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:19) What Hypocrisy am I hearing here.
<SergioBac> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:19) Joop hypocrisy about what?
<JoopTeernstra> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:19) Hi, Keith. Meet relativity :-)
<JoopTeernstra> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:19) Hans K's "sacrifice"
<OFuk> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:19) If public partcipation there is about as worthy as it is here why bother.? Cheap hotel rooms and cuisine
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:20) Hans claiming that he is concerned about outreach?
<JoopTeernstra> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:20) HaH
<OFuk> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:20) Outreach as in grabbing your wallet or more people to frustrate
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:20) He was the one who was against the MAL since the start.
<LeahG-originalBIZ> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:20) Fancy meetings and hotels does not = outreach
<Keith> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:20) Peter must be taking pills Joop - he has been the voice of moderation and reasonableness for the past couple of months
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:21) welcome back dave
<JoopTeernstra> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:21) Keith, perhaps because he got what he wanted?
<GaryOsbourne> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:21) He's talking about his outreach at houses of ill-repute around the globe
<OFuk> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:21) Hans concerned like Esther the new Freedom fighter!
<baptista> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:21) it's all aligator tears
<OFuk> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:21) What now they are ruinning domain rehabilition centers
<PeterMott> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:21) Keith: There is a reason for it :-)
<Keith> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:22) I wonder what the reason is Peter?
<PeterMott> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:22) Keith: Keep wondering
<Keith> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:22) lol
<OFuk> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:22) Kendall you said it well Have meetings to discuss more meetings how ironic
<GaryOsbourne> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:23) Ya, more public comment time so they can get rentacrowd crispy crock to say more from the floor
<JoopTeernstra> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:23) Hi, ofuk. May I read your name as meaning "horizon"?
<OFuk> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:23) Here is an observation. This is all about the Internet ,Cyberspace if you will get your partcpation that way and save money for something like @large elections
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:24) makes sense to everyone but them
<OFuk> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:24) Can someone explain the Crispy Cock connection what's their connection
<Keith> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:24) Time you stood for ISOCNZ Council again Peter - might make some progress??
<JoopTeernstra> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:24) This whole Board discussion sounds rehearsed
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:24) I propose a meeting to discuss the meetings about having meetings. Shall we meet about it?
<OFuk> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:24) You know they go home and watch themselves
<PeterMott> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:25) Keith: OT here
<Keith> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:25) Sorry Peter/all
<OFuk> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:25) All this work and the internet was hanging in there for years
<OFuk> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:25) Maybe he wants Bora Bora
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:26) or was it Pago Pago?
<OFuk> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:26) Louis Our friend where is he at
<JoopTeernstra> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:26) Both would be fine with me. Nice and near
<GaryOsbourne> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:26) Er, doesn't ICANN have to have annual meeting somewhere in CA?
<Len> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:26) Anyone going to be at the venue for next ICANN meeting (and able to assist with lodging court documets locally prior to and during the meeting)?
<LeahG-originalBIZ> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:26) yes
<OFuk> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:26) How about the quality of the meetings instead of the destination
<JoopTeernstra> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:26) Yes
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:26) Nov. in LA
<Keith> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:27) An educated board would be useful!
<GaryOsbourne> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:27) Well then Lynn should read the bylaws (or nonprofit CA law?) before opening his mouth
<JohnVorstermans> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:27) Getting away from these F2F meetings would be even better.
<OFuk> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:27) Leah, Question Our new Jack boot friend claims the Alts bring instability has he provide proof of any ALT root with the Legacy in it that crashed ?
<Len> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:27) Is that a yes to my query, Joop and Leah?
<OFuk> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:28) Kendall
<LeahG-originalBIZ> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:28) Yes, they must have a f2f in CA
<JoopTeernstra> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:28) Yes to the first part only.
<MarciaLynn> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:28) i will be there also
<GaryOsbourne> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:28) Figured so.
<OFuk> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:28) I missed all weekend has Karl become more aggressive
<JohnVorstermans> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:28) When is LA
<LeahG-originalBIZ> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:28) OF, no
<GaryOsbourne> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:28) Karl's been excellent
<OFuk> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:28) That's what I thought
<Keith> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:29) Next meeting is Montevideo I think John - LA is 2002
<JoopTeernstra> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:29) So has Danny
<LeahG-originalBIZ> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:29) OF, yes
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:29) He has tried.. but Vint shuts him down
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:29) "take it offline"
<MarciaLynn> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:29) Vint openly insults him and thinks it's normal banter
<JoopTeernstra> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:29) I hope Karl and Andy can still bring up their motion, before Vint hurries the meeting to a close.
<PeterMott> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:29) One must never be prepared for an in-depth exchange it stops us from hearing what others have to say
<Keith> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:29) KD - you failed to acknowledge Vint's copyright on that message...
<OFuk> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:29) I guess there can be no question now that Roberts hand picked himself his new and improved version in SL
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:29) I am transcribing the quotes and questions from Karl from yesterdays session. I'll send them out in email
<OFuk> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:29) Kendall
<JoLane> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:29) "this is not a Board meeting" (response to helpful discussion about IC)
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:30) sorry Keith... "take it offline(tm)"
<GaryOsbourne> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:30) Joop, what motion?
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:30) what OFuk?
<JoopTeernstra> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:30) Thanks Kendall.
<JoopTeernstra> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:30) Listen to the mic!!!
<SotirisSotiropoulos1> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:30) i'm off to bed, will someone email me with the results of the discussion on a IDNH
<JoLane> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:30) include me in that Kendall please, I'd like them on the webiste
<OFuk> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:30) U have Mail
<SotirisSotiropoulos1> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:30) I'm listening
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:30) the mike is on! shhhh!
<GaryOsbourne> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:30) Ya shhhh
<LeahG-originalBIZ> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:30) me, too Kendall
<Keith> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:30) Don't tell Ben...
<JoLane> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:31) sotiris, I'll email you
<JoopTeernstra> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:31) This is about a Board decision today on the IDNH
<LeahG-originalBIZ> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:31) now for the coffee break meeting
<SotirisSotiropoulos1> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:31) thanks jonna. good night/morning all
<baptista> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:31) ah yes - what do we do now
<SotirisSotiropoulos1> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:31) joanna, sp.
<LeahG-originalBIZ> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:31) nite Sotiris
<baptista> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:31) pass the money
<baptista> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:31) pass the buck
<JoLane> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:31) nite SS
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:31) I'll tell you what.... I have Joanna, John, Joop and Leahs email. Anyone else who wants a copy email me at kendall@paradigm.nu
<OFuk> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:31) My God how this happened it's sad. all this for thirteen servers
<Len> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:32) amanda, any progress on the mobile break-cam?
<LeahG-originalBIZ> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:32) Yes, Amanda, it would be good to see who confers with whom
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:32) I will sent out what I have so far now... It may be a day or two before I can work on it again.
<Keith> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:32) OFuk - the easy part is the strings and wires - its the policy thats difficult on any network]
<JoopTeernstra> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:32) dear all, my email at idno.org is broken. John V. what happened to idno-discuss@idno.org?
<LeahG-originalBIZ> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:32) Keith, explain
<JoopTeernstra> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:33) but you can always reach me at joop@terabytz.co.nz
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:33) wb dave
<JoLane> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:33) wb anon 279
<JohnVorstermans> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:33) JoopTeernstra: No idea. Don't work there any longer. :-)
<MarciaLynn> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:33) kendall ygm
<OFuk> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:33) You vould have told me I was in a meeting from a year ago and I wouldn't know the differnece it's the same crap differnet place
<LeahG-originalBIZ> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:33) always, OF
<Keith> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:33) The root servers themselves are the easy part of the Internet - serving 256 lookups for the gTLD's and ccTLD's and thats it. The hard part is deciding who gets to do what with the entries in the root servers
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:34) anon279 = Dave Crocker (or so the joke goes)
<LeahG-originalBIZ> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:34) at least this time they will discuss the IDNHC
<baptista> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:34) always the same crap - just the scenery changes
<OFuk> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:34) As in Edit,Copy Paste easy!!!!
<JoopTeernstra> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:34) discussion, yeah, but will they decide?
<OFuk> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:34) Leah What of the Petition to Commerce is that dead ?
<LeahG-originalBIZ> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:34) gotcha, keith. That's the frightening part
<LeahG-originalBIZ> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:35) OF, no response to any inquiries
<JoopTeernstra> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:35) I'll take a little break now, see you all later.
<GaryOsbourne> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:35) and for a technical organization the only tech stuff was alt roots and they fscked that up entirely
<LeahG-originalBIZ> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:35) cya joop
<baptista> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:35) bye joop
<OFuk> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:35) I can't see how somone isn't gettin paid
<Keith> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:35) Seeya Joop
<GaryOsbourne> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:35) cya
<LeahG-originalBIZ> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:35) Gary, what did you expect? That they would cooperate?
<KendallDawson> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:36) brb
<Keith> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:36) Coffee break here too - afk.
<OFuk> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:36) Don't they have a responsibility to provide a formal response or are they following the reconsideration and waiting
<GaryOsbourne> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:36) I'm just saying that when they did talk about alt roots they didn't understand what they were talking about
<JoLane> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:36) how long is this break?
<baptista> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:36) if you guys want to see just a fraction of the technical problems - watch what happens to diebold incorporated and the orsc when i'm ready.
<LeahG-originalBIZ> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:36) If they did that, they would bring the enmity of the four or five major players down on them
<OFuk> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:37) bap explain ?
<LeahG-originalBIZ> (Mon, June 04, 2001 at 04:37)