Session Start: Wed Aug 25 08:14:38 1999
* Logging #ICANN-Santiago to 'icann-santiago-chat-082599.log'
<logbot> hello?
<logbot> testing ...
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<RichardLindsay> Good morning Santiago...
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<dianecabell> I'm having trouble finding the chat.  I had to use my History.  There is no link from cyber.law/icann/
<RichardLindsay> diane, this is it, are you looking for another?
<dianecabell> Real Video links on http://www.icann.org/santiago/santiago-details.htm#webcast not working either
<RichardLindsay> they put up the link just before it starts
<RichardLindsay> Guess they are still in breakfast
<dianecabell> Coming in from the outside I can't locate this easily.  I had to use stored data to get here.  A newbie would be lost.
<RichardLindsay> definately agree
<dianecabell> WE can't raise them on the phone either.  Must be problemo there
<RichardLindsay> plus the real audio is difficult at best outside the western hemisphere
<dianecabell> OK on link.
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<RichardLindsay> diane, can you get the real audio up?
<RichardLindsay> I get a requested file not found...
<dianecabell> nothing yet
<dianecabell> we cannot even reach them by our phone here at Berkman
<dianecabell> contact!
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<dianecabell> no action yet
<RichardLindsay> diane, contact with? phone?
<MichaelFroomkin> Hi - any of the feeds up yet?
<RichardLindsay> just started
<dianecabell> nope
<RichardLindsay> I am connected, but there is nothing on TV...
<MichaelFroomkin> Which server are you on?
<RichardLindsay> this time on the berkman center one
<RichardLindsay> last night the Chile server dumped me after the break...
<dianecabell> moi aussi
<RichardLindsay> Isn't the meeting supposed to start in 5 minutes?
<MichaelFroomkin> Very few internet meetings seem to start on time...it's not just ICANN
<RichardLindsay> Hey there's Jun Murai
<RichardLindsay> Ohayou gozaimasu Jun
<RichardLindsay> as if he was watching...
<MichaelFroomkin> anyone have sound?
<RichardLindsay> no
<RichardLindsay>  There seemed to be a lot more participants yesterday
<RichardLindsay> I wonder if everyone is worn out?
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<karls> Good morning
<RichardLindsay> morning, or good evening (for me...)
<karls> is the audio feed up yet?
<RichardLindsay> video is up, but no sound yet
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<RichardLindsay> morning ben
<MichaelFroomkin> Hello Ben; nice camera work!  (no sound yet tho')
<edelman> true, no sound right now.
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<dianecabell> charlie is working on his presentation.  What time does he go on?
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<dianecabell> Hey Hil!
<mason> is anyone getting sound - we get images
<RichardLindsay> no sound yet here
<dianecabell> we have sound now
<baptista> i get sound but its very low
<RichardLindsay> I think there is some sound... very very weak
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<dianecabell> what page has a link to the real video?
<RichardLindsay> Ben, are you there?
<mason> http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/icann/santiago/realtime/broadcast.asp
<dianecabell> he's multi-tasking, give him time.  Thanks for the link mason
<RichardLindsay> is anyone getting full sound?
<mason> the sound is too low to make out.  i think were listening to the translator - but today shes not very loud
<RichardLindsay> big difference compared to yesterday :-)
<dianecabell> no sound here
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<mason> who's the gentleman talking?
<edelman> no one has sound?
<edelman> which feeds are you using with inadequate sound?
<dianecabell> I don't but Tommy does
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<RichardLindsay> Florencio Utreras?
<Glave_WiredNews> Barely -- amp cranked up to 11 here
<edelman> how about the audio-only feeds from cambridge?
<edelman> please someone tell me which feed to fix!  can't help if you're not specific.
<RichardLindsay> I'm using the real video from cambridge
<dianecabell> fine
<dianecabell> the audio feed is ok. No audio in my video feed
<edelman> ok, john wilbanks is on it.  give him a minute. 
<mason> this one ben is bad pnm://200.28.16.28/live/icann-live-082599-2.rm
<edelman> ok, mason.  that's the one jw is looking into.
<edelman> in the meanwhile, is it the case tha trealaudio from cambridge is OK/
<dianecabell> yes
<mason> any others you want me to check?
<edelman> make sure you can get one you're happy with, then tell everyone what touse until we fix them all.
<Glave_WiredNews> I need the video stream. Is there one that works.
<mason> the feed from chile has sound
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<mason> full sound and the translator sounds very nice
<RichardLindsay> got sound
<dianecabell> Got translation and sound on Real Video feed. Great!  Need to have full throttle
<Glave_WiredNews> Ok, got the Santiago feed with sound. Thanks.
<dianecabell> thanks, much better louder!
<dianecabell> up   a bit more
<dianecabell> excellent
<mason> the audio feeds and video on the chile links seem to be out of step
<edelman> jw says audio is better now.
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<dianecabell> it is great
<RichardLindsay> much better, a little lower than yesterday though
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<mason> open board meeting - they'll be up all night learning the script
<RichardLindsay> waste of all that Chilean wine tasting time...
<RichardLindsay> I am raising my hand
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<RichardLindsay> did they see me???
<dianecabell> we'd like to know what the regional representation is.
<RichardLindsay> asia pacific
<JonZittrain> by my quick eyeballing:
<dianecabell> how many are there from each region?
<JonZittrain> 10-15% latin america
<JonZittrain> strong plurality europe
<JonZittrain> 20% north america
<JonZittrain> two people from africa
<dianecabell> wow
<JonZittrain> strong plurality asia pacific
<RichardLindsay> for the future, it would be nice to have region on the remote participants list too
<edelman> what about privacy?
<edelman> will post summary (%'s by region) late tonight if net allows
<dianecabell> in what sense, ben?
<edelman> (it iddnt allow much work on archive last night)
<RichardLindsay> entered by choice
<edelman> yah, true
<edelman> maybe ok.
<edelman> will think & ask around.
<dianecabell> it's on the registration for chat
<RichardLindsay> I don't mind at least...
<andyg> don't get started on privacy, Ben!
<RichardLindsay> I live in Japan, I have no privacy...
<mason> that right ben - let's talk fruit salad receipies instead
<edelman> i take it seriously ... am very comfortable what what info i've posted so far, don't want to do anything hasty, but will take your commentsinto account.  indeed "optional" is key...
<RichardLindsay> is this on the web somewhere?
<RichardLindsay> It id impossible to see on the video
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<edelman> working on putting doc on web.  give wilbanks 30 more seconds.  then check agenda.
<RichardLindsay> thanks
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<MikkiBarry> howdy, folks :-)
<RichardLindsay> good evening!
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<MikkiBarry> I wonder who was excluded from the GAC meeting this time around.  any word?
<RichardLindsay> Moldova was there :-)
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<MikkiBarry> wonder about turks and caicos
<mlangston> morning.
<MikkiBarry> morning :-)
<RichardLindsay> we meet again...
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<mlangston> Wired News?
* andyg is away since 9:49:14 AM - automagically set away after 10 min idling. Msglog [ON]
<RichardLindsay> guess they didn't pay for his trip
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<MikkiBarry> *sigh*  that public resource public interest stuff again
<dianecabell> i like the principle that of no proprietary  rights in TLDs
<MikkiBarry> I wonder how they'll be able to pull that off....
<dianecabell> heavy handed legislation, I imagine
<MikkiBarry> hee hee...that NEVER happens :-)
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<mlangston> Yeah...those named serial numbers might have two-digit years in 'em...
<MikkiBarry> jun morai is a member of CORE I think
<JoshElliott> I don't believe so
<RichardLindsay> No he is a professor of Keio University
<RichardLindsay> You are thinking of Toru Takahashi
<JoshElliott> He is the head of JPNIC
<RichardLindsay> but his company is now part of PSI Net
<MikkiBarry> he used to be
<JoshElliott> JPNIC is not part of PSI Net
<RichardLindsay> No, Tokyo Internet, Toru's old company
<dianecabell> identity confusion
<MikkiBarry> PSI bought the first commercial internet provider, that was intercon and jun was not a part of it
<mlangston> Was the agenda revised this morning?
<RichardLindsay> yes
<mlangston> what were the significant changes?  I can't find anything on the scribe's noted about it.
<FrancoisMenard> are the slides available ?
<RichardLindsay> I thought you meant updated (as in correct...) wouldn't know
<dianecabell> I can't read anything on the screeen displays in the meeting room.
<edelman> working on slides. our net is slow so it's real hard to get them up fast.
<mlangston> Did Esther mention IDNO at all this morning?
<dianecabell> not yet
<mlangston> ok.
<edelman> yes, the local organizers like to put th eslides on video... good for the other chilean universities connected via high res video feed on atm, but bad for all of you on realvideo.
<edelman> i tried to convince them not to do this, but they wouldn't budge.
<edelman> sorry ;-(
<dianecabell> I could see th elovely map
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<MikkiBarry> thanks for trying, ben :-)
<MikkiBarry> the fact that we can participate remotely at all is a significant bonus.
<mlangston> very very true.
<MikkiBarry> my bank account still hasn't recovered from IFWP :-)
<mlangston> heh.
<Glave_WiredNews> I'm just back from a brutal crash. :-( 
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<MikkiBarry> is it newsworthy?  (the crash :-))
<Glave_WiredNews> Lol
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<mlangston> Grr.  I have to get ready to go to work, if I want to be there in time to catch the beginning of the DNSO report at 11.
<mlangston> Let me know if I miss anything significant.
<MikkiBarry> I'll be off for about 15 minutes myself....brb
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<FrancoisMenard> so, where are the slides ?
<edelman> net got worse 
<edelman> (we lost our ftp connection midway through transfer ...)
<Glave_WiredNews> yes, i am coping with net congestion here. almost unusable.
<BretFausett> no net congestion here yet (LA)
<dianecabell> ok in cambridge
<FrancoisMenard> here its great, email'em to fmenard@fmmo.ca and I'll post them
<JoshElliott> I have congestion in LA
<edelman> if we had email good enough to send...
<edelman> (they're big once converted to html, though you coild do that youreslf i guess0
<FrancoisMenard> what is the name of that measurement group ?
<edelman> i think we'll turn out ok here, thoughl.
<JoshElliott> All better now
<Glave_WiredNews> better now -- though crash kille all my $%! notes on the financial picture. is the slide up anywhere.
<FrancoisMenard> is this esther
<Glave_WiredNews> yes
<edelman> check agenda now ... budget & root server presentations are up now.
<JonZittrain> Budget presentation and Jun's presentation should be up.
<BretFausett> any representation for the consumers of ip addresses?
<dianecabell> what are the URLs for those.  It's so hard to locate stuff quickly
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<dianecabell> where are these slides posted?
<FrancoisMenard> slides ?
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<dianecabell> budget and root server presentation
<paulds> *yawn*
* paulds just woke up. :)
<FrancoisMenard> diane, URL please
<edelman> sorry, miscommunication on my end.  they're just not there yet.
<dianecabell> please send URL when they're up
<edelman> yes.
<JoshElliott> Diane, are you in Santiago?
<dianecabell> At Berkman
<edelman> check /icann/santiago/archive/asopres
<JoshElliott> Oh
<edelman> our archive went into wrong directory.   temporarily check http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/icann/santiago/archive/agenda-082599.html for some stuff
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<FrancoisMenard> http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/icann/santiago/archive/murai.html
<FrancoisMenard> HTTP Error 404
<edelman> http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/icann/santiago/archive/murai/ works
<edelman> so does http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/icann/santiago/archive/asopres/
<edelman> at least mostly, lost our net again
<dianecabell> fabuloso
<FrancoisMenard> ppt source ?
<dianecabell> power point?
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<edelman> the agenda link from broadcast now has all the right links.
<edelman> sory this took so long.
<edelman> (is really very hard to do the upload when we keep losing connect to ftp server)
<MikkiBarry> we'll flog you later, ben ;-)
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<Glave_WiredNews> I know how you feel. :-)
<FrancoisMenard> yes, the microsoft powerpoint file ... I'd like to save this on my harddisk and I dont want to snake the site
<MikkiBarry> tony just posted something about a NYT article saying that the GAC kicked out Nader?
<MikkiBarry> anyone hear anything about that?
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* andyg is back
<andyg> news to me! I was at the DNSO meeting, wrong building for the GAC meeting
<JonZittrain> Theresa Amato wasn't allowed to attend the closed meeting.
<andyg> Interesting that they held a closed meeting of the At Large "Membership Advisory Council" yesterday morning
<edelman> cannot do that irght now francois... tonight if net is stil usable then.
<MikkiBarry> this closed stuff is really not looking good for them
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<MikkiBarry> uh oh...geek question...anyone know offhand how to reset an smtp server in dec unix?
<andyg> That ICANN staff report is pretty scary too
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<MikkiBarry> I have to say that it's getting worse and worse...I thought that the hearings might open things up
<andyg> still have to keep a close eye on them!
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<MikkiBarry> hi michael
<andyg> Welcome back, michael
<MichaelFroomkin> BAck from a little crash...
<dianecabell> andy-there is no At Large MAC.
<andyg> Well, they had a closed meeting yesterday morning, or was it something else?
<dianecabell> where do you see this.  I'll check
<JonZittrain> Andy-> Greg Crew had breakfast with some former MAC members (I wasn't there myself)
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<andyg> It was in the "Salon Directorial" at around 8.30am yesterday morning. Lots of big noters in attendance
<JonZittrain> Doesn't bother me particularly; it wasn't any official mtg.
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<MikkiBarry> hi sri
<JoshElliott> the Directorio room is the ICANN headquarters for this event
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<SrikanthNarra> hi mikki
<JoshElliott> I don't think breakfast meetings are official ICANN meetings
<SrikanthNarra> how is it looking can not get audio and video
<andyg> Well, there was about 20 people in attendance, around a board table, with Esther off to one side. What was it?
<andyg> hi sri
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<MikkiBarry> it's a perception problem if nothing else
<SrikanthNarra> hi andy
<JoshElliott> it was no official meeting - this is the first I've heard of it
<paulds> ugh, REUNA feed is laaaaggy.
<andyg> We need to find out exactly waht it was then
<MarkBabiarz> Question: There are 25 plus companies with the trademark Miller not affilliated with each other. Tom Jones has a business called Miller Painting Contractors which he bought from Joe Miller. Who is entitled to the domain name miller.com?  And why does ICANN discriminate against Tom Jones for miller.com if he uses it?
<JonZittrain> So far as I know--again, I wasn't there--it was outreach!  consultation w/former mac members knocking around staff report and membership ideas.
<andyg> It was mentioned in the ccTLD meeting the day before
<JoshElliott> there are a lot of various discussions going on all over the place
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<andyg> Well, this one looked like quite a high-power meeting, and was a closed event
<mason> audio just lost
<JoshElliott> How was it closed?
<paulds> ooh translator is perfect!  yay
<karls> translator is wonderful...
<andyg> All discussion stopped when we enetered the room, and Esther removed us from the room
* paulds pats Ben on the back.
<MikkiBarry> removed you from the room?
<JoshElliott> I thought you said you weren't there?
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<andyg> yup. Backed us out the door. Many surprised faces when we entered the room.
<dianecabell> andy where do you see this announcement?
<andyg> I wasn't at the _GAC_ meeting, not the one we're discussing
<JoshElliott> ok, sorry.
<andyg> Verbal announcement in ccTLD meeting (possibly by William fron Nominet?)
<andyg> I heard the key words "At Large" meeting
<JoshElliott> Is it possible for ICANN to have any informal meetings that are behind closed doors?
<andyg> Perhaps someone should post an on-line question about it to Esther to find out exactly what the meeting waqs, and why it was closed?
<dianecabell> people meet as individuals all over the place.
<MichaelFroomkin> Can anyone point me to the text of the latest GAC communique/report please?
<mason> someone was drinking a big bottle of stuff behind the talking guy
<MichaelFroomkin> PS "open meeting" rules just force more private meetings...that's the FL experience (and the private ones are illegal...)
<SrikanthNarra> andy nice press article in nytimes
<dianecabell> http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/icann/santiago/archive/agenda-082599.html
<RichardLindsay> Michael, what is FL?
<RichardLindsay> Florida?
<JoshElliott> private meetings are illegal?
<MichaelFroomkin> FL==Florida; and thanks Diane!
<MichaelFroomkin> private meetings of county commissioners are illegal (mostly)
<andyg> URL for NYT article?
<JoshElliott> ok
<MikkiBarry> http://www.nytimes.com/library/tech/99/08/cyber/articles/25domain.html
<MichaelFroomkin> I get a 404 on the GAC communique right now
<RichardLindsay> By the way, if you ask Esther, she will likely reply
<JoshElliott> So do I - Ben will probably have it up shortly
<JonZittrain> Michael->Try reloading the agenda
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<SrikanthNarra> mikki andy i am out of audio and video. give me a shout now and then on whats happening
<SrikanthNarra> do we need to be concerned till 4 today ?
<MichaelFroomkin> reload didn't seem to change anything...
<MikkiBarry> I dont' know sri....I'm not terribly up on the agenda, etc.  I'm not giving this 100% of my attention I'm afraid
<SrikanthNarra> no probs mikki.
<MikkiBarry> big deadline looming :-)
<dianecabell> fockler asking for periodic reviews of all SO and reviews of other issues
<MikkiBarry> that sounds like a good idea
<SrikanthNarra> yesterday william, andy mark and joop where there
<SrikanthNarra> as long someone from our side is there to update eachother we are ok
<MichaelFroomkin> Jon/Ben - Only link working off agenda is "financial".
<SrikanthNarra> andy whats ur take do you think any issues of prime concern for idnoers till 4 ?
<JonZittrain> try http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/icann/santiago/realtime/GAC-Comminuque-mtg3.html
<MichaelFroomkin> Thanks Jon, that works!
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<RichardLindsay> Jon, how many people are in the meeting today?
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<JonZittrain> ~125, I'd say
<SrikanthNarra> andy ?
<RichardLindsay> thanks
<dianecabell> hans and esther saying another committee of some kind is being established to review interests of ISPs et al. But not a second ASO. Kim H. aksing for time to discuss this proposed resolution. ESther says that htere has been plenty of discusssion
<MikkiBarry> thought they wanted consensus :-)
<MikkiBarry> if ARIN isn't on board...they may have themselves a problem
<dianecabell> Kim wanted postponement of vote on it.
<andyg> soory sri, been off at the NYT site. Great article. Joop is beaming!
<MikkiBarry> sounds like us asking for postponement of the WIPO guidelines and having that steamrolled in anyway
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<MikkiBarry> I can't get the NYT article.  *sigh*
<SrikanthNarra> http://www.nytimes.com/library/tech/99/08/cyber/articles/25domain.html
<bcis> hello, is there a meeting in progress?
<MikkiBarry> it won't let me log in, sri
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<edelman> are the video links on the REUNA servers working ok?  They should be.
<edelman> i know our video is full.
<paulds> REUNA is laaaaggggggyyyyyyy......
<edelman> and there are problems with our cambridge audio which i will work on at the upcoming break.
<edelman> i know it's not great ... but it's all we got at the moment.
<dianecabell> The non-RIRs have apparently proposed some kind of AdHoc comm.  ARIN protests.  Board says that there has been time for discusion, now time to vote.
<edelman> will try to fix soon.
<paulds> video is at least 20 seconds behind the audio.
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<mason> lets hope ipv6 works well
<andyg> May i suggest that IDNO'ers need to bee on line at 11am when the DNSO report is presented
<SrikanthNarra> hi mason
<SrikanthNarra> kewl
<MikkiBarry> IE didn't like that :-)
<andyg> Coffee break now on
<SrikanthNarra> what time is it now ?
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<andyg> 10.45am
<paulds> 10:49am
<mason> hello Sri - I'm on and off here today.  Just monitoring - what you think so far?
<paulds> orso. :)
<dianecabell> brb
<dianecabell> break
<RichardLindsay> how long is the break?  20 minutes?
<MichaelFroomkin> So, did anything happen this morning?  Can someone summarize?
<mason> ben - you should keep the mikes on so we can evesdrop on everyone
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<paulds> scheduled for 20 min, yes
<andyg> i'm taking abreak br
<andyg> brb
<MikkiBarry> ah...it finally let me log in
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<SrikanthNarra> same scene here mason
<paulds> hm
<paulds> Ben, did REUNA just drop their feed entirely?
<paulds> Can't get anything now, sez file not found
<SrikanthNarra> in same situation here mason
<MikkiBarry> ah...got to read the NYT article...excellent :-)
<RichardLindsay> I had that problem yesterday, finally gave up..
<SrikanthNarra> any one what time is it there ?
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<karls> what was the URL for the NYT article again?
<RichardLindsay> about 11:00am
<paulds> http://www.nytimes.com/library/tech/99/08/cyber/articles/25domain.html
<karls> thanks
<paulds> np
<MikkiBarry> where can I send substantive comments re: the dispute policy?
<JonZittrain> Mikki--if you use the form, I think there's a dropdown menu where you can say which agenda item your comment is apropos to
<MichaelFroomkin> the test audio in ?spanish? is coming in loud and clear
<MikkiBarry> thanks jon
<RichardLindsay> si
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<anonymous> testing
<paulds> testing?
<paulds> ok then
<SrikanthNarra> mikki how long u going to be here ?
<anonymous> sorry.  just checking
<Rick> any icann approved registrars here?
<RichardLindsay> We are one
<paulds> 's ok. :)
<MikkiBarry> rats!  my message is too long
<paulds> just wasn't sure what the correct response was. :)
<MikkiBarry> I'll be in and out, sri
<RichardLindsay> Rick, did you want to ask something, or just checking :-)
<SrikanthNarra> mikki i will run along can you mail me when u leave so andy / joop will not be alone ?
<MikkiBarry> I will try, sri :-)
<SrikanthNarra> thanks mikki
<paulds> Richard, were you at that first mtg in Cambridge last fall?
<RichardLindsay> yes I was
<paulds> ah
* andyg is away since 10:58:35 AM - automagically set away after 10 min idling. Msglog [ON]
<Rick> Richard, just checking
<paulds> you're in .jp, yes?
<RichardLindsay> Yes, interQ
<paulds> ok, thought so.  I remember meeting you there
<RichardLindsay> It is going to be a Looong night
<RichardLindsay> Paul, you are at BU?
<paulds> yup
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<SrikanthNarra> bye mikki / andy
<DennisSchaefer> Hi Mikki -- Sri
<RichardLindsay> OK, didnt recognize the ds...
<paulds> I was possibly the youngest non-Berkman person there. :)
<SrikanthNarra> bless u dennis
<SrikanthNarra> dennis andy is there too..
<DennisSchaefer> why- Sri, cause I made it in?
<SrikanthNarra> yep
<RichardLindsay> I would guess so.
<paulds> ah, just found yer business card.  Can't read most of it. :)
<RichardLindsay> isn't it english on the back?
<SrikanthNarra> i was just on way out - got to clear my desk. was workign thru nite to make up for yesterdays time
<paulds> yeah
<RichardLindsay> how is the NT stuff going?
<paulds> argh
<RichardLindsay> wanna come to Japan?
<DennisSchaefer> Sri, I know --today's frantic ....   did you email that thing I sent?
<SrikanthNarra> hopefully with avery ruling in background some sane dispute resolution policy will come out
<paulds> had to go AFK twice yesterday due to problems I had t ocope with. :/
<SrikanthNarra> i just did
<DennisSchaefer> wasn't that a heart-warmer????
<paulds> heh, maybe. :)
<SrikanthNarra> i know
<RichardLindsay> send me a mail :-)
<SrikanthNarra> a bit worried the whole process with get discredited if there railroad it as it is
<Rick> richard, whats your e-mail?
<paulds> will someone teach me Japanese? :)
<RichardLindsay> richard@interq.ad.jp
<DennisSchaefer> i sent a question this am, in spanish, but haven't been watching.  seen it?
<SrikanthNarra> nope - just came on a while ago - still not on audio or video
<anonymous> audio has someone making phone calls...
<RichardLindsay> Rick, we met in Berlin
<karls> ben - what happened to audio?
<DennisSchaefer> i would love to hear what larry lessig at harvard would say about avery!
<karls> who is avery?
<RichardLindsay> paul, special japanese teachers provided (heavy bribery...)
<paulds> argh, no feed 4 me. :(
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<DennisSchaefer> the avery decision yesterday
<Rick> richard, yes i belivev we did meet in berlin
<SrikanthNarra> hi dinesh
<RichardLindsay> are you still in Germany?
<dinesh> hey sri
<paulds> I'll consider it.
<Rick> richard my only japaneese 'o-pie mie say tay'
<dinesh> the berkman realvideo server seems to be full up. anywhere else i could get a realvideo feed ?
<RichardLindsay> rich... its a start 
<Rick> dinesh, try the secondary, i just logged in there.
<RichardLindsay> rick, but be careful
* MichaelFroomkin is going to be away from the channel.
<paulds> dinesh, I've been tryign secondary for 15 min, no luck
<Rick> richard, i know. a roommate of mine taught me that ;-)
<mason> try http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/icann/santiago/realtime/reuna-e.ram
<SrikanthNarra> ben was making some suggestions yesterday
<SrikanthNarra> try ben - dinesh he should get to u in a min
<DennisSchaefer> will the outcome of tomorrow's vote be to accept the drp ... or something else?
<SrikanthNarra> not too sure - dennis
<RichardLindsay> rick, trying to get you in trouble!
<Rick> dennis, will the vote take into account online participatnts?
<SrikanthNarra> mikki is here but she came on today
<DennisSchaefer> any chance of a postponement on the vote?
<SrikanthNarra> andy is away on break he is the right one to ask
<SrikanthNarra> wx and mark were walking me thru it yesterday
<SrikanthNarra> i suspect they will turn up around 4 going by agenda
<paulds> Ben, reuna-e.ram feed results in: "Requested file not found.  The link you followed may be outdated or inaccurate.  rtsp://trantor/alejandria.cl/encoder/vivo_e.rm
<MikkiBarry> bleah...this 1000 character limit is rough to meet :-)
<DennisSchaefer> Rick -- No -- i was referring to the Board's vote
<FrancoisMenard> the break is not over yet ?
<mason> hmm worked for me earlier
<SrikanthNarra> dennis i need to run - will try to be around 4ish
<karls> not yet
<DennisSchaefer> see u
<SrikanthNarra> bye dennis, dinesh, mikki (again), andy mason
<dinesh> so long, sri
<DennisSchaefer> is karl auerbach here?
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<paulds> spanish & portugese also give "file not found"
<RichardLindsay> I had this problem all last night
<RichardLindsay> the feeds may be full?
<paulds> doubt it, Ben said they had room for 200
<RichardLindsay> on the .cl servers?
<dinesh> paulds, nope, server keeps rejecting me.
<mason> i've been looking over their Projected Cash Flow Analysis - July 1 to August 31, 1999 - and again no details: http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/icann/santiago/realtime/financial-projections-through-8-31-99.html
<edelman> paulds, that not found msg happens during pauses in the mtg when the santiago people turn off hteir encoders, though i don't.
<edelman> yes, the reuna servers hold 200.
<edelman> our vieo in santiago hold 25.
<edelman> in cambridge , 120
<dinesh> ben, what are the urls for cambridge and reuna ?
<edelman> look on broadcast.asp please.
<edelman> and tell me if my references are too vague
<dinesh> ben, all the links seem to point to cyber.law.harvard.edu.
<DennisSchaefer> Josh/Ben/Jon:  this IRC is great.  Wish the WG's had it!
<edelman> audio went down when cable was accidentally unplugged.  should be back now ... static or mumbling now as we're still in break.
<dinesh> the one at http://www.reuna.cl/icann/ points to the reuna servers
<mason> that only the cgi-bin on cyberlaw - he redirects the feed.  cyberlaw give you a cookie 
<dianecabell> is the ASO report up?
<karls> there still isn't audio on the Berkman feed...
<MikkiBarry> I don't have audio either
<dianecabell> its up now
<DennisSchaefer> My audio just came back
<MikkiBarry> there it is :-)
<karls> so did mine
<karls> :-)
<dianecabell> off again
<DennisSchaefer> ditto
<dianecabell> how many people are there, would anyone guess?
<JonZittrain> 100-125
<RichardLindsay> Jon mentioned around 125
<RichardLindsay> speak of the devil...
<DennisSchaefer> dianne:  would love to hear your thoughts on representation on the GAC someday
<dianecabell> looks like a clown car on REl Video....the people just keep streaming in
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<dianecabell> MAC approved of residency as criteria for regional voting and citizenship
<edelman> oh yes, there really is a problem with reuna english.
<edelman> sorry i didn't get that earlire.
<edelman> (did someone say it sufficiently clearly that i should have?)
<edelman> jw is investigating.
<dianecabell> as  basis for regional candidates.  GAC supported that'
<paulds> thought so
<edelman> pls someone check on the audio only server from cambridge and tell me if it's ok.  affirmative report, prefaced with BEN to get my attention, plesae.
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<dianecabell> I would like to protect the TLDs and somehow have them exempt from
<dianecabell> individual proprietary ownership.  GAC supports that.
<Rick> are there secndary realvideo servers available?
<DennisSchaefer> what would the 'custody' of a name be then?
<dianecabell> question is "who speaks for the non-proprietary public interest?"
<paulds> Ben, primary audio doesnt work, secondary goes but is silent.
<MikkiBarry> me :-)
<dianecabell> LOL
<DennisSchaefer> Go mikki! you speak for me!
<MikkiBarry> I speak for the trees too
<DennisSchaefer> Rush Limbaugh wouldn't like that!
<dianecabell> You limb-lover, you
<paulds> BEN, primary is file not found
<MikkiBarry> yeah, that's me :-)
<dianecabell> I talk TO the trees
<edelman> chcek the english server now.
<MikkiBarry> but do they talk BACK? ;-)
<edelman> PAULDS: primary WHAT? is not found.
<dianecabell> LOL
<mason> ester - red latex - think red latex
<dianecabell> they argue over who represents the forest
<paulds> BEN, the primary audio feed from berkman you just asked for reports on. :)
<DennisSchaefer> if i don't get IP out of my daily life, i'll be climbing trees
<JoshElliott> Ben, primary audio is having trouble
<paulds> yay, reuna-e is back!
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<edelman> good, paulds.
<MikkiBarry> hi again bret
<edelman> JOSH, primary cambridge audio is down, you say?  what about secondary?
<Rick> audio: primary appears to be unreachable, secondary sends no packets, primary viedo server is full!
<JoshElliott> Secondary is OK, but hard to hear - volume really low
<MikkiBarry> bah humbug
<JoshElliott> now, I am finally back on the REUNA realvideo feed
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<MikkiBarry> now this part could get seriously contentious
<MikkiBarry> I often wonder how Amadeu has survived this long :-)
<DennisSchaefer> is this Elisabeth speaking?
<paulds> BEN, yes, secondary audio feed was silent
* andyg is back
<andyg> andy is back!
<andyg> Amadeu is now speaking
<mason> he's spanish
<andyg> translated
<MikkiBarry> it is the translator, dennis
<edelman> am working on primary cambridge audio
<MichaelFroomkin> AA says there's no chair of the NC...that's odd..I thought J.Sola said he was chair?
<MikkiBarry> don't call him spanish...he would be very upset...he is catalonian
<MikkiBarry> hi andy
<mason> J.Sola according to most members is the generalisimo
<DennisSchaefer> Michael, he did
<RichardLindsay> No, I think everyone thought Javier was chair
<andyg> hi mikki!
<DennisSchaefer> Javier said it in an email
<JonZittrain> It's probably a provisional chair/chair distinction.
<andyg> Javier has been very quiet so far this week. 
<mason> Wonderful place - I'll remember that catalonian
<edelman> is there anyone at the moment without adequate realaudio or video?
<MichaelFroomkin> I'm confused now.  Does the NC have bylaws?
<RichardLindsay> the DNSO has bylaws
<MikkiBarry> don't you know that the core members are interchangeable, michael? ;-)
<MichaelFroomkin> More generally, all these acronym groups means too much procedure & wheel reinventing...
<mason> Javier is afraid of losing control
<RichardLindsay> the NC does not have bylaws itself
<andyg> Javier has been largely ineffective in Santiago, IMHO
<MikkiBarry> both javier and amadeau have seemingly had the same function since we were all on the IFWP steering committee
<Rick> mason, Javier looses controll over worring about loosing control.
<BretFausett> This is a fair overview so far.
* paulds is away: (Argh, NT servers need attention.) [BX-MsgLog On]
<MikkiBarry> it's nice to know that amadeu rambles on in both spanish and english :-)
<mason> i actually enjoy listening to him - he's make a good chair
<edelman> primary cambridge audio should be back up in another minute or two...
<Rick>  cyber.law.harvard.edu appears to be unreachable
<RichardLindsay> the translator has her work cut our for her...
<DennisSchaefer> i'm lost in the verbiage
<mason> you know MikkiBarry - spanish is a language designed for rambling, and it sounds very nice, if you understand it - you appreciate the extra fluff
<edelman> give it a sec.  sadly, the harvard net hiccups for a few seconds (sometimes longer... ) eery couple hours.  sux big time.  nothing at all i can do, other than complain every so often to my network manager.
<MikkiBarry> she needs a medal at this point :-)
<DennisSchaefer> translator deserves a prize for this
<karls> I agree
<BretFausett> REUNA's running very smooth.
<DennisSchaefer> to make what  public?
<andyg> Nii about to speak
<RichardLindsay> I think mailing list archives
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<edelman> good, glad reuna feed is good.  we need the space on that server.
<edelman> that is, on the smaller video server which is good for firewalls.
<MikkiBarry> I haven't heard anything at all on the general assembly.....
<mason> have you checked you logs on the real server and looked at your hit count ben
<MikkiBarry> is there one formed?  how does one join it? can it vote?
<DennisSchaefer> it voted yesterday
<edelman> and the reuna server is huge.
<MikkiBarry> is there any information about it located online?
<BretFausett> This is weird. Nii is speaking on audio. But Amadua is still on the video.
<edelman> bad net.  can't get much from the us, espceially after 5:00 when the net here (primarily used by home users... thefefore good during hte day) gets REAL bad.
<DennisSchaefer> don't know:  Esther said the MAC was working on the rules.
<dianecabell> there is no MAC right now
<paulds> REUNA video is *real* good now.  I can almost read Nii's lips. :)
<edelman> realaudio on primary cambridge should be back.  can someone verify?
<DennisSchaefer> Dianne -- so all GA rules/procedures/votes right now are impromptu?  Legit?
* paulds is back from the dead. Gone 0 hrs 7 min 43 secs
<dianecabell> You are confusing the GA (which is part of DNSO) with MAC which is At-large
<paulds> oops
<RichardLindsay> The ga is basically the ga mailing list
<DennisSchaefer> you're right! I'm am making that error.
<RichardLindsay> according to the dnso bylaws, it doesn't really vote, but measuers consensus
<RichardLindsay> I guess that is what occurred yesterday
* MichaelFroomkin is going to be away from the channel.
<BretFausett> On REUNA -- Video lags audio by about 30-40 seconds. I still have Nii, but hear Andrew.
<JoshElliott> Didn't someone want this earlier?  http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/icann/santiago/archive/financial-projections-through-8-31-99.html
* andyg is away since 11:39:36 AM - automagically set away after 10 min idling. Msglog [ON]
<mason> when is the idno agenda item?
<MikkiBarry> it's difficult to do "outreach" if you make people feel unwelcome like the IPC does with proposed "weighted voting"
<RichardLindsay> sorry, IPC?
<MikkiBarry> intellectual property constituency
<RichardLindsay> ahhhhh
<MikkiBarry> why the rush for dnso elections when they still don't have a membership, and not even a MAC working on it anymore?
<RichardLindsay> Andrew is explaining that now
<MikkiBarry> "couple of days" of public comment?!?!?
<RichardLindsay> mostly related to funding issues I believe
<MikkiBarry> I think that's a smoke screen
<MikkiBarry> after all, if they can afford a 500K lawyer, and an 18K per month CEO, why not do membership?
<RichardLindsay> There are quiet a few USG requirements I believe
<MikkiBarry> The #1 task for ICANN was membership
<DennisSchaefer> To permit a vote on DRP before individuals and non-coms get rep'd?
<MikkiBarry> *sigh*  backhoe operational in my back yard.  If I lose connectivity, you'll know why :-)
<paulds> hah
<JonZittrain> Mikki-> Cmt received; in queue for afternoon's discussion of dispute resolution policies.
<MikkiBarry> thank you jon....it was a royal pain getting it down to 1000 chars....:-)
<MichaelFroomkin> Jon - do you know if ICANN has had any legal advice on the anti-trust issue on UDP?
<DennisSchaefer> How is 'region' defined?
* ThomasLowenhaupt thinks that's very funny...
<RichardLindsay> 5 regions defined by ICANN
<ThomasLowenhaupt> No, I just tried the sound feature and please accept my apoligies.
<DennisSchaefer> Thanks, Richard
<JonZittrain> Michael-> Nope, I don't know.  Joe Sims is an antitrust lawyer by trade, I think, but I don't know if he's analyzed it.
<MikkiBarry> that was likely 95K of the 500K :-)
<ThomasLowenhaupt> At least I didn't do the "bored" or "slap everyone".
<MikkiBarry> sorry, my cynicism is showing
* andyg is back
<andyg> you guys listening to this stuff?
<MikkiBarry> can anyone actually read that document?
<MikkiBarry> trying to, andy....have not yet heard anything about IDNO
<JoshElliott> Ben, try http://www.icann.org/berlin/berlin-resolutions.html#1
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<andyg> andrew is talking about idno right now
<MikkiBarry> ah..here it is
<paulds> ah yes
<andyg> trying to set the scene for another refusal
<edelman> tks, josh.  too bad i had this closed.
<edelman> when you wrote & when it would have helped.  but turned out oK.
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<baptista> yes it looks like a no way to idno - they really dont want any complications
<dinesh> ahh, managed to get in on the realvideo feed, but audio is terrible !
<JonZittrain> I wonder if the board might seek to require any of the provisional constituencies to accept individuals.
<edelman> which relavideo ?  berkman in santiago?
<mason> ye old divide and concour routin
<edelman> what is terrible about the uadio?  low level?
<edelman> or something else?
<MikkiBarry> I don't think that's good enough, jon
<andyg> get some on-line questions going, guys!
<FrancoisMenard> what is the url to that proposition from the individual domain names holder coalition
<MikkiBarry> they are already diluted far too much
<JoshElliott> Ben, you might want to tell Andrew that I am here, and I could help with pointer to the web pages if needed
<dinesh> ben: berkman. and everythign sounds so muffled
<edelman> muffled.  ok.
<edelman> dinesh, how bad is it?
<karls> the sound is ok if you turn up the speakers on your computer all the way
<edelman> ok, josh, told andrew same.
<dinesh> seems like the mike is picking up too much background noise and the speaker gets lost in it
<dinesh> cant make out anything
<edelman> how is the audio on the audio feed?
<MikkiBarry> it's working out well from my end
<dinesh> video is excellent
<edelman> (audio-only)?
<mason> good for me
<MikkiBarry> but I'm not on audio only...
<karls> both audio and video are fine for me
<DennisSchaefer> Jon:  provisional recognition would be better.
<dinesh> ben: and i've tried your stop and restart trick
<andyg> joop's in the line to speak, after amadeu
<paulds> geez, video feed is just now showing the citizenship vs residency screen shots...
<MikkiBarry> excellent....force the IPC to follow the rules :-)
<karls> berkman video is showing Ester
<mason> i'm atster talking of mentoring progs
<mason> now randy bush
<paulds> REUNA video is *still* showing Andrew's initial talk.
<JoshElliott> my feed is showing Randy in real time
<paulds> at least 5 min behind the audio.  pretty useless
<edelman> which feed, paulds?
<MikkiBarry> and randy is waving his hand and leaving trails :-)
<dianecabell> Real Video has Raoul
<paulds> REUNA Eng feed.
<andyg> i think you should forget the vid for a while and concentrate on the audio, so that on-line questions are put forward in time
<dianecabell> non-com LAs
<dinesh> oh. looking at realvideo stats, i'me averaging 8kbps on a 20kbps clip. that could be causing the horrible audio.
<edelman> is audio on berkman santiago video better now?  should be.
<paulds> REUNA English video appears to be 6-7 minutes behind its audio.
<karls> Much better Ben
<dianecabell> i have no problem with REal Video from Cambridge
<edelman> karls, thank jw ... he did it.
<karls> thanks JW
<RichardLindsay> cambridge feed is good, even from Japan
<paulds> heh, Amadeu just getting up now. :)
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* paulds is going to ignore the pictures.
<MikkiBarry> he's looking for another scooby snack from esther for being brief :-)  hee hee
<RichardLindsay> it is not Amadeu now
<mason> my average is 19.6
<paulds> no, I mean, on the lagged video.  Not 4 real
<MikkiBarry> hey jon, are we allowed more than one comment if the subjects are different?
<RichardLindsay> someone from Latin America... didn't catch the name
<edelman> raul echebarria
<RichardLindsay> thanks
<dianecabell> Raol represents LA non-coimmercials
<RichardLindsay> Raul is from Uraguay?
<JoshElliott> painfully
<mason> good - the loosy web question
<mason> he's like a little kid
<MikkiBarry> yes....public comment stuff needs to be fixed
<RichardLindsay> I agree
<JoshElliott> agreed
<mason> he giggles like a child
<MikkiBarry> so do I :-)
<dinesh> hello
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<JoshElliott> translation will be fun too
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<MikkiBarry> maybe jones day can translate too :-)
<mason> it's very cute - i don't know many people who giggle like that.  sort of sweet
<RichardLindsay> hey, don't forget we have to translate the dispute policy as well
<JoshElliott> volunteers needed
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<RichardLindsay> not fun at all!
<MikkiBarry> <--speaks bad french and that's about it.  you would NOT want me trying to
<mason> now ithe multiple translations the web site is going to me a mess.
<JoshElliott> are you sure you don't want to dispute the translation policy?  :=)
<FrancoisMenard> Je parle bien francais ;-)
<MikkiBarry> il y a un poisson dans le bibliotheque....pew pew :-)
<paulds> Saya berbahasa Indonesia sedikit...
<karls> j'en parle un petit peu
<RichardLindsay> Josh, I rest... 
<RichardLindsay> fantastic!
<paulds> Tapi saya sudah lupa kebanyakan.
<MikkiBarry> watashi wa kichigai bengoshi desu
<RichardLindsay> ya ne ponimayu
<RichardLindsay> MIki, nihongo umai desu 
<andyg> focus, people!
<RichardLindsay> I didn't know you are a bengoshi?
<MikkiBarry> sorry richard, that's all I know except how to order sushi
<RichardLindsay> oops
<paulds> :)
<dinesh> paulds, bahasa indonesia agak sama dengan bahasa malaysia
<paulds> yah :)
<MikkiBarry> yes, scary no?  was thinking about going back to school so I could annoy the harvard people but they likely wouldn't let me in
<JoshElliott> If you have constructive ideas on how we can update the website with minimal effort, please let me know
<mason> its not ideas that are required - but a good initial plan
<RichardLindsay> is there a fulltime webmaster?
<andyg> use the slashdot engine!
<dianecabell> What about asking some language schools to do the translations as class projects?
<mason> it the guy mclaughlin - on the video who giggled
<MikkiBarry> what a surprise that INTA would not want diversity
<RichardLindsay> the regional nics will probably help, ask JPNIC, I have once
<JoshElliott> there is not a fulltime webmaster; a bunch of us try to get the info up and that is about it
<paulds> Regional ISOC chapters could adopt translation duties, maybe?
<mason> I was told Andrew is the webmaster?
<JoshElliott> Andrew is one of the webmasters
<MikkiBarry> well, with part time people, I'm glad that it works at all :-)
<MikkiBarry> the audio is getting intermittent
<JoshElliott> I think we all wish we had a full time webmaster to help us with this stuff, but funding is the major obstacle
<edelman> MIKKI, WHICH AUDIO?????
<MikkiBarry> on the video feed
<edelman> WHICH VIDEO FEED?
<paulds> poor ben :)
<MikkiBarry> the berkman feed
<JoshElliott> translation is not a major problem.  Finding the appropriate info is the big issue.
<mason> get the money from icann - for 50,000 you can have the best webmasters available
<MikkiBarry> it is clearing up...but it is fading a bit
<JoshElliott> We don't have 50,000
<dianecabell> I'm on RV BCIS #1  It's ok
<mason> icann has 50,000 - cut the bloody budget - better yet publish the details and we'll tear it apart for you
<MikkiBarry> this was a question congress asked DNRC - how should ICANN get funding
<MikkiBarry> the consensus has been 1) bring costs under control
<JoshElliott> I am one of the ones paying the bills - we don't have the money right now
<paulds> Actually, $50,000 will get you a reasonable decent webmaster, not an awesome one.
<MikkiBarry> 2) seek funding based on true costs.  Perhaps that will work
<mason> then can you publish the budget - i'
<mason> i'll find you the money
<dinesh> ahh, the audio improved tremendously just now
<edelman> the net fluctuates here from ok to very very bad.
<JoshElliott> the budget is already published
<edelman> have gotten 100% packet loss lots of times, typical seems to be more like 15%
<mason> they don't need an awsome webmaster - look at the site - it sucks - they need a webmaster with organizational abilities
<MikkiBarry> uh, who is this person who is speaking for ICANN?  is he a board member?
<MikkiBarry> can the staff now speak for the board as "we would allow?"
<edelman> mclaughlin
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<andyg> Andrew is speaking, with a lawyer talking in his ear
<MikkiBarry> it doesn't look good for a staff member referring to "we"
<mason> i want budget details - where would they be email me the urls to pccf@bigbird,earth-net.net - but I want details - not the fluff that was published today
<MikkiBarry> when the board is sitting right there
<mason> he's with ISI
<JoshElliott> Detailed financial reports will be available soon on the ICANN website
<dianecabell> if they don't agree I'm sure thehy'll speak up
<dianecabell> He is not with ISI
<MikkiBarry> I'm looking at it as a procedural and perceptional issue
<dianecabell> andrew is a lawyer
<JoshElliott> who is with ISI?
<MikkiBarry> lots of the problems people have with ICANN are procedural and perceptional
<mason> what is the level of detail - i
<mason> d like to see it by account breakdown.
<JoshElliott> I don't know - the general accounting report (I think)
<mason> You Josh are with ISI
<mason> is that correct?
<JoshElliott> are you saying you would like the public to know how much we spend on pencils?
<MikkiBarry> I think that the IPC diversity issue underscores that the whole intellectual property issue is largely a US one :-)
<JoshElliott> I am with ICANN
<mason> yes - i want office budgets for supplies - how many accounts do you have?
<JoshElliott> 1 account
<JoshElliott> we are not a staff of thousands
<mason> do you have any background in finance?  Accounts are the details that make up the trial balance - i'd actually love to see the trial balance for ICANN - that would provide most of the information - a trial balance by account - no department
<karls> how many ICANN staff people are there?
<JoshElliott> I am not the finance person, all of that is done by Mike Roberts
<dianecabell> my hero
<JoshElliott> The staff list is on the website - http://www.icann.org/general/abouticann.htm
<dianecabell> Excuse me. Post to wrong list
<andyg> javier's first speech for the day
<mason> Why is Mike doing the books - you mean mike does the books all on his own?
<MikkiBarry> awww, diane...if you're going to drop one, it should be MUCH jucier :-)
<BretFausett> Go Theresa
<JoshElliott> Ben, lost both audio and video on REUNA feed
<mason> who are the accountants?  do you know their names?
<edelman> JOSH: hmm.  is it back yet?
<JoshElliott> Nope.
<MikkiBarry> YAY theresa :-)
<BretFausett> I dropped REUNA in favor of audio only.
<paulds> BEN, I still have REUNA, both video (lagged) and audio.
<dianecabell> show time, folks
<MikkiBarry> is that Javier?
<JoshElliott> Mike does the books (along with a 3rd party accountant) - there are only 5 people here on staff.  We can't do it all
<dinesh> suddenly, 5 mins ago, my real video feed from berkman got so much better
<karls> I think that my video and audio are lagged.
<mason> i've been asking for accounting details now for days - you people bitch about money - but when it comes to the crunch - no details
<MikkiBarry> is there any way we can be less adversarial in here?
<mason> who's the accountant?  names?
<andyg> let's focus on the current ICANN meeting topic!
<BretFausett> Please.
<mason> yup sorry andy
<andyg> ncdhc discussion now happening
<paulds> whee
<mason> its zit - what did he say
<MichaelFroomkin> Geographic rep rules can hurt minorities; noentheless it seems the least bad rule
<MikkiBarry> true.....but you're right.  I can't think of any other way
<dianecabell> he read richard lindsay's post suggesting that any constituency that could meet the regional requirements should seat fewer NC reps
<MichaelFroomkin> RL's view creates a strong incentive to comply!
<RichardLindsay> could not meet regional reqs
<paulds> definitely
<dianecabell> thanks
<andyg> Could I have a roll call of IDNO members on this channel, with geographic info please?
<baptista> here
<dinesh> andyg: dinesh from malaysia and possible representing asia-pac as well. ;)
<MichaelFroomkin> On residence vs. citizenship: say you count as from place of citizen unless you live abroad & have done for N of past M yrs?
<MikkiBarry> here, US
<RichardLindsay> I have been in Japan for 10 years, but noone would confuse me as Japanese, no matter how good my Japanese gets...
<dinesh> oops, sorry richard
<MichaelFroomkin> Fair point, RL, so what do we do?  Counting someone w/ a green card for 40 yrs as US isn't right either?
<RichardLindsay> but I have had a lot of possitive support from the .jp groups regarding my representing Japan :-)
<JoshElliott> Mason, please let us know your full name, title, etc.
<MichaelFroomkin> Well, maybe N of M is ok then?
<dianecabell> what's wrong with using residence?  How much ujnfairness results from that?
<MikkiBarry> are they now saying that we can't be excluded from non-commercial solely because we are members of another constituency?
<JoshElliott> Ben, I'm finally back up
<RichardLindsay> I would say if a regional groups opposed someone's claiming to be from that area there would be a reason to review
<mason> Jeff Mason at Planet Communications & Computing Facility pccf@bigbird.earth-net.net
<JoshElliott> Thanks
<RichardLindsay> did that make sense>?
<JoshElliott> Jeff, if you like, we can talk privately about the budget, but I think everyone in this chat wants to stick to the detials of the current meeting
<dinesh> oops, amadeu seems to be next in line to the mic
<FrancoisMenard> where is the non-commmercial proposal , what's the URL ?
<mason> Josh Elliott - email me you address - i'll let you know what were looking for - later this week after meeting - thanks
<JoshElliott> icann@icann.org
<dianecabell> http://www.icann.org/dnso/noncommpage.htm
<MikkiBarry> oh listen to this Javier stuff!  sheesh
<MikkiBarry> if that is him....
<RichardLindsay> yes this is Javier
<RichardLindsay> was
<MikkiBarry> you can't divide it that way
<andyg> now amadeu
<BretFausett> are they going to take our online questions?
<MikkiBarry> not if it's like Berlin, Bret ;-)
<dianecabell> they took one
<andyg> online q's are queued for when that topic comes up, I belive
<RichardLindsay> if you grab jon or ben they might help
<MikkiBarry> I sent one re: IDNO
<RichardLindsay> and Jon said it would be read.
<JonZittrain> Yes, IDNO comments are queued
<MikkiBarry> jon acknowledged the other one I sent re: dispute
<MikkiBarry> hi jon :-)
<andyg> Next discussion on ncdnhc then idno after that
<JonZittrain> They'll be up after the NC part
<andyg> DRP after lunch
<dinesh> andyg: arent they discussin ncdnhc now ?
<BretFausett> I sent one on my pet topic -- individuals in constituencies for which they "qualify"
<andyg> yes dinesh. sorry
<JonZittrain> Bret-> That language has been on the screen, and Andrew just spoke a bit to that.
<dianecabell> bret, objection raised by those who feel this will dilute   individual voice
<MikkiBarry> I really think that dilutes the message, Bret....for example, in the IP constituency, they are trying to dilute us badly
<MikkiBarry> the same thing will happen in other constituencies, IMHO
<paulds> yah
<MikkiBarry> I am constantly being asked "how many members do you have"
<BretFausett> Hmmm. I strongly disagree. But we can discuss later.
<dinesh> mikki: joop mentioned 120 yesterday
<JonZittrain> Bret-> I can still read your comment aloud, but you may want to adjust in light of what Andrew said.
<andyg> we just got our URL given in a NYT article, so the web site should see some traffic soon
<MikkiBarry> ok bret...I'd really be interested in your views
<BretFausett> I missed what Andrew said. Video probelms.
<BretFausett> What was his point?
<dianecabell> i think it was that individuals can input via the GA and working groups
<mason> whats the url andy?
<BretFausett> Jon -- Use your judgment, if it's been addressed, I'll get the  answer offline.
<JonZittrain> He said that the bylaws language was meant to ensure equal application of criteria once established--not to insist that criteria must allow individuals in each constituency.
<andyg> http://www.nytimes.com/library/tech/99/08/cyber/articles/25domain.html
<MikkiBarry> oh rats....my electricity just went down...then back up
<BretFausett> Not in each constituency, but why, for example, are sole propreitorships excluded from Businness and Commercial, and individuals trademark owners excluded from IPC?
<dianecabell> NC guy now saying he doesn't want individuals in his group..wants them to have their own
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<JonZittrain> Bret-> Perhaps rephrase to focus on that?
<BretFausett> Sure. Let me see if I can send you something.
<JonZittrain> Great.  The more specific--and perhaps directed to someone in particular, or the board--the better, it seems to me.
<mason> who is the GAC rep?
<BretFausett> Just sent it on, on the NCDNHC
<FrancoisMenard> I have a stupid question ... Do the list of root servers need to be expanded each and every time a new gTLD is added ? (eventually)
<MichaelFroomkin> Wilkinson is the EU person who has been doing DNS, isn't he?
<mason> no - only 13 max
<paulds> no, not necessarily
<JonZittrain> now on to IDNO.  Sigh.
<andyg> idno up now!
<dinesh> francois, not necessary, as long as the roots point to the nameservers serving the gtld
<andyg> ben can you put www.idno.org up?
<RichardLindsay> Michael, yes, also GAC stuff
<dianecabell> yes.  if new TLD are added, the others must make new copy to include it
<paulds> yay 2 minutes
<dinesh> consider to consider idno?
<paulds> yeah, geez
<dinesh> joops seems much more refreshed than yesterday
<dianecabell> he should just concentrate on how many individuals have interests that deserve a voice.
<FrancoisMenard> doesn't this pose a problem of scalability as to the number of additional gTLDs that are possible ?  Specifically, is there any WGC working paper detailing this ?
<DennisSchaefer> the NC claims individuals have no interest in domain names ... businesses yes
<paulds> BoD doesn't think IDNO is representative...
<dianecabell> Menard, this is not a good place to keep asking for all these references...were trying to follow the speakers.  Maybe you should ask offchat
<dinesh> paulds, i'm galvanizing folk over here in malaysia. expect about 20 odd new idno supporters in the next fortnight
<andyg> go dinesh!
<paulds> cool
<andyg> I have a Malasian contact for you
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<andyg> Malaysian
<dinesh> andyg: pass his name on, i'll reach him here. phone or email ?
<dinesh> why doesnt he want to discuss now ?
<NickPatience> says it's the DNSO's job, not the boards'
<paulds> sigh, time for lunch
* paulds is away: (lunch with gf) [BX-MsgLog On]
<MichaelFroomkin> The irony is that IDNO is the first genuinely self-organizing const.
<andyg> dinesh, what's your email?
<baptista> this is sad.
<dianecabell> first individual self-org.
<dinesh> andyg: dinesh@alphaque.com
<baptista> sad for icann
<NickPatience> rest of board is noticebaly quiet, wonderwhy they're not challenged to speak
<RichardLindsay> Feel free to ask a question directly to a board member of your choice :-)
<mason> all i want to know is - will ester wear red latex
<baptista> what crap 120 is more then in others
<MichaelFroomkin> If I want to online comment about IDNO, what topic do I pick????
<RichardLindsay> DNSO
<baptista> there are only 137 people on the ga mailing list
<dinesh> mikki's comment
<dianecabell> Mikki--they'll just say go to At Large
<DennisSchaefer> mikki -- bravo!
<dianecabell> Where does the individual owner of a trademark get to input?
<DennisSchaefer> dianne- that's the question i just submitted
<dianecabell> good
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<MikkiBarry> sheesh!  no electricity over here
<andyg> GO DINESH!!!
<dinesh> mikki: you just missed your comment being read out
<MikkiBarry> ah....was there any reaction?
<DennisSchaefer> guess my comment won't get read
<mason> good professional job zit
<JonZittrain> Dennis-> It was queued after I started reading.  I've signaled there are more.
<MikkiBarry> <--had to dial in via aol due to electrical failure...so I'll be a bit slow :-)
<MichaelFroomkin> gotta run..office hrs...
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<DennisSchaefer> thanks, jon
<dinesh> yeaaaah !
<NickPatience> at last board members have to do something
<mason> mike wants to hit the bar - it's chile wine tasting time.
<mason> excellent
<MikkiBarry> oh great..he's remaining comfortable that diluted voices can be heard without giving them real voting power, eh?
<MikkiBarry> but who IS this GA?  and when can we become involved with it?
<andyg> someone please ask why ICANN is wanting to move slowly on IDNO when WIPO is on fast track???
<dianecabell> I'm in th eGA
<dinesh> mikki: DNSO GA meeting was yesterday
<mason> wipo pays kick backs
<RichardLindsay> sign up to the ga mailing list, then you're "in"
<MikkiBarry> was there any public information about this GA thing?
<MikkiBarry> and where can I find the mailing list?
<mason> no - they want it very quite
<RichardLindsay> it is very poorly explained
<dianecabell> on the dnso.org site
<MikkiBarry> here you go Dennis
<RichardLindsay> yes, oh... speaking of quiet... I just lost sound
<mason> mike's great - come back in november
<DennisSchaefer> Did esther say my comment belongs to NCDNH?
<andyg> Yes Dennis!
<MikkiBarry> yeah..let's push WIPO through and NOT allow any input from those most effected?
<andyg> You got blown off!
<mason> excellent the pokey case
<DennisSchaefer> I'm about to spill it to the NYT to see if they're interested!
<MikkiBarry> yes dennis....and send it to me (ooblick@netpolicy.com) and we'll restart the "hall of shame" on the DNRC website
<MikkiBarry> sheesh!  this is pathetic
<MikkiBarry> what a lame comment about gTLDs
<mason> like being democratic
<DennisSchaefer> I can't believe it -- you'd be shocked to know how many angry phone msgs and fedexes were dumped on my son at school!
<MikkiBarry> dennis - I'm not surprised at ANYTHING rabid trademark lawyers do
<dianecabell> Your biggest fan, Bret
<MikkiBarry> <--is a trademark lawyer but is not rabid
<andyg> dennis - give it to WilliamX for dnspolicy.com as well!
<DennisSchaefer> mason: nope -- this i s a new one
<MikkiBarry> uh, we've only heard from 3 board members?
<MikkiBarry> and this makes consensus?!?!?
<MikkiBarry> Now I understand their idea of consensus
<DennisSchaefer> aarrrgh!
<BretFausett> Jeez, I just heard my name and my video froze. What did he say?
<NickPatience> too righ it's always Hans & occasionally Crew
<NickPatience> do we know who the 7 present are?
<MikkiBarry> they said "we will defer individual constituency's petition"
<MikkiBarry> it's the "consensus" of the board.  3 board members spoke
<MikkiBarry> one was kinda on our side I thought
<JoshElliott> I think the Board members present are listed on the agenda
<andyg> lunchtime - time to re-group
<FrancoisMenard> do you know if Karl Aurbach is in Santiago ?
<MikkiBarry> watch this come up with yet another "unanimous" vote
<MikkiBarry> I do not think he is
<andyg> Karl is not here :^(
<dianecabell> She prefaced this by asking the Board members to speak up if they had changed their opinion onany of these issues.  None of them apparently had,,exfcept CRew was giving it much thought
<BretFausett> I've lost all audio and video.
<MikkiBarry> but the question from the online commenter was for each board member to give their opinion
<MikkiBarry> they're at lunch, Bret
<FrancoisMenard> Does anybody know why DOC is not trying to enforce .com registry competition ?
<DennisSchaefer> mason:  my son got zapped by a bleach company (with an assisst from a drp)
<dianecabell> You just missed some prior context, Mik
<andyg> i'nm off-line for lunch - don't want my laptop pinched while I'm away!
<MikkiBarry> possible, but I still think it's damn lame
<NickPatience> can someone clarify for me who the 7 board members there are?
<mason> Dennis: are they still suing him?
<NickPatience> dyson roberts, wilson, crew, murai, Hans & who else?
<DennisSchaefer> no -- they took the name away, daring me to sue to get it back
<MikkiBarry> I haven't heard Wilson say "boo"
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<MikkiBarry> Dennis - I think this needs to be publicized as widely as possible
<JoshElliott> frank is there too
<dinesh> mikki that's what i asked. a public poll of what _each_ board member feels
<DennisSchaefer> mikki:  any ideas?  i've kept the company to myself until today (even their business type) ,,,, no more
<MikkiBarry> good for you dinesh!
<NickPatience> thanks Josh
<MikkiBarry> Couple of ideas.....press releases, put it up on web sites, I'll mention it to reporters who call me for information
<mason> what was the domain name?  Dennis
<DennisSchaefer> mikki:  fine (you have my phone and email, no?)
<MikkiBarry> oh goody!  my power is coming back up!!!!
<dinesh> mikki: the comment was read out, but only 3 spoke up and as you've pointed out, somehow esther inferred consensus from this
<mason> I agree with Mikki Berry - publicize
<DennisSchaefer> www.clorox.org
<JoshElliott> the meeting notes are a good source for  information (who is there, who is not, what you have missed, etc.)
<MikkiBarry> what was on the site, dennis?
<DennisSchaefer> a web cam photo of my son's dirty room and a bannet that said he wasn't involved with clorox bleach
<dianecabell> dinesh, she announced that they had already voted among themselves to defer it.  She asked if any Board members wanted to change that based on today's input.  None did.
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<MikkiBarry> in another closed meeting with no accountability
<dianecabell> You'd have been ok if it was a site complaining about Chlorox products.
<mason> this is your son Schaefer, Adam  (AS10080)  dns@MARBLEHEAD.COM  
<MikkiBarry> still should be ok...it's non commercial
<DennisSchaefer> mason: yep
<dianecabell> true
<mason> did they send you letters - demands - have you scanned them?
<DennisSchaefer> mikki:  in jnuary he briefly had a joke graphic also up that said "tasty clorox -- 99 cts"
<MikkiBarry> still sounds non commercial to me, although after the jews for jesus case, we don't know for sure
<mason> jokes are artistic expression - the boy has rights to that
<dianecabell> as long as he's not asking for money
<MikkiBarry> neither was brodsky in "jews for jesus"
<dianecabell> artistic expression isn't a defense to trademark
<DennisSchaefer> he didn't receive any orders !
<MikkiBarry> sure it is, if it's non commercial
<dinesh> diane: and what was the rationale for that ? hence my query to get each board member to state their position
<dianecabell> they were, i believe. One was selling books and the other soliciting funds.
<MikkiBarry> actually a hyperlink on one of the pages pointed to a jewish group selling religious tracts
<MikkiBarry> a HYPERLINK....this guy wasn't even selling anything
<MikkiBarry> this was akin to DNRC putting a link for microsoft on the page
<mason> when kids are involved it kicks legal ass.  Remember - to a corporation the law is not the bottom line - they can be smashed by public opinion
<MikkiBarry> if we say "contact microsoft to tell them we're upset with the way they're acting" does that make us commercial?
* JoshElliott is going to be away from the channel.
<dianecabell> Esther's letter to Joop and Karl (the only explanation I've seen) said that they basiclly felt that there was an overlap between at-lage and individuals that neeeded to be thought through.
<DennisSchaefer> i complained to the chief counsel of the company -- he blew me off
<MikkiBarry> there's the same overlap between at large and commercial, at large and trademark, etc.
<MikkiBarry> yet that is never brought up
<MikkiBarry> sorry, diane...i'm getting rabid.  This is just so frustrating
<dianecabell> lots of overlaps
<MikkiBarry> it seems that the overlap that promotes business interest is encouraged, but the overlap that promotes users interests is crushed
<mason> Make it very public dennis - it's not worth going to court over, but it's a good issue to expose this nonsense and kick the clorox people where it hurts the most
<dinesh> when does the meeting resume after lunch ?
<dianecabell> 3
<mason> 2 pm right?
<dinesh> or rather, how long is the lunch break ?
<FrancoisMenard> does anybody know why the US DOC is not attempting to enforce .com/net/org TLD registry competition ?
<MikkiBarry> I'm going to relog in...hopefully my router and server have recovered :-)
<MikkiBarry> back in a bit
<mason> 3 pm - this starts at 3 pm again.
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<RichardLindsay> Francois, what do you mean?
<DennisSchaefer> Thanks for the tips, all.
<dinesh> ok, gotta rush off a while then. it's 1.24am august 26th here in malaysia, and i'll be back at 3pm ET. if anything happens before that, i'd appreciate a quick email to 0193116969@sms.celcom.com.my which will beep my mobile phone here, even though i've disconnected
<dianecabell> break for me
<FrancoisMenard> let me try to be more precise, what I want to know is why isint NSI's monopoly over the registry operation not being phased out at the same time than its monopoly over the registrar function ?
<mason> they have an interest - it makes lots of money
<FrancoisMenard> mason: I'm a consultant ... going back to UdeS for an MBA
<FrancoisMenard> NSI makes money ... but isin't it the mandate of the DOC in the creation of ICANN to share the registry for .com/net/org ?
<mason> yes - it is - but that does not mean nsi is co-operating - there are alot of personalities to all of this.
<FrancoisMenard> I'll reverse my question ... is it technically possible to share the registry function of .com/net/org ?
<dinesh> ok, see y'all later.
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<FrancoisMenard> are there any gTLDs that are shared right now ?
<mason> yes - technically it is possible - although right now what they have in place is more beta test - it works.
<FrancoisMenard> of which the registry is shared amongst multiple registry operators
<FrancoisMenard> mason: what they have now is not the sharing of the registry, its shared access to them mofifying the database
<mason> Correct - shared updates to the database - but I'm not sure how it works - it does work.
<FrancoisMenard> hence my problem.  I would not like to see the internet evolve in a direction where every gTLD operator have proprietary protocols and interfaces that allow them specific control over the database
<mason> i don't know of any other registries what are shared like the nsi one
<FrancoisMenard> mason: they have some 10K$-cost-a-million-to-develop-SRS-system and they charge 100,000$ to participate
<mason> where do you want that control to be?
<mason> it's a franchise fee
<FrancoisMenard> but the 10K$ is for licensing the SRS software (i.e. the .com update protocol)
<FrancoisMenard> 10K$ for what should be opensource software implementation of an IETF RFC ...
<FrancoisMenard> so, hence my question.  It seems to me that nobody is telling NSI that they WILL NOT BE the ones to maintain monopoly ownership over the registry database for the .com/net/org gTLDs
<mason> sure - but I just look at it as a business expense - 10,000 is nominal to get in on the NSI action - although all your doing is beating an already dead dog to screds - the nsi tld's are very full.  no room for growth - and most of the lists are for sex related tlds - 60% of .com
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<FrancoisMenard> so what you are telling me is that soon, people will loose interest over .com because it is too full ?
<DennisSchaefer> mik/mason/dianne: i sent a question in spanish this am, before getting onto chat -- holler if you heard it?
<mason> ok
<mason> the .com tld has an interesting history - in the old days it was the trash basket - where anything that did not fit the definitions of the other tlds - would go to .com.  and yes - it is hard to find easy names on .com
<mason> taking a little break
<FrancoisMenard> but my customer seems to think that there is some forme of prestige tied to the letters com after the dot ... the public perception is that it is the letters com that means the internet and not the dot before the letters com in .com, hence, seeing viable registry competion for the .com/net/org TLDs should be a mandate of the US DOC, what's your take ?
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<mikki> ok...looks like my system is back..yay yay
<mason> it's become prestigeous just because of the same reasons why people are famous for being in the right place at the right time - but if you clienst had an ability - how about an email address with name@company.corporation or name@companyname - where the company name is the tld - that can be done.  In fact I suggest companies setup internal tld systems in order to establish a claim.  send all you confidential email via your internal tld maile
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<mikki> :-)
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<RichardLindsay> welcome back to the lunch break...
<mikki> welcome back michael
<MichaelFroomkin> Office hrs are slow today...
<MichaelFroomkin> Alas, I teach 3:30-4:30 so I'll miss a key part; then it's my son's birthday...
<mikki> happy birthday to your son :-)
<FrancoisMenard> you are of course inferring that gTLDs will obsolete .com.  But in the mean time, nobody is really going to compete NSI, simply resell their services .... how long before gTLDs ?
<mikki> you missed the board's "consensus" of three that the IDNO proposal will be postponed
<mikki> francois - the NSF sent a letter to Karl Auerbach stating that the whois database belonged to NSI
<MichaelFroomkin> No I heard that; and ED's suggestion that nonprofits like eff belong in NCDH (does that apply to nonprofit trade assocs of IP users?)
<mikki> how would you propose to get around that?
<mikki> I guess so, michael :(
<FrancoisMenard> to enfore mandatory sharing of the .com registry ?
<MichaelFroomkin> well, back to work until the mtg starts, i guess
<FrancoisMenard> or otherwize, to set the terms and standards by  which the .com registry can be updated
<MichaelFroomkin> If I set "away" how do I stop it when I come back?
<FrancoisMenard> for example, why should a domain name be registered for two years when all you want is to keep it up for a couple of weeks during an ad campaign
<karls> Cleopatra's nose?  What?
<mikki> dunno how long I'm going to be able to stay on....thunder and lightning here
<karls> ouf.  Bright sunshine here
<mikki> we really do need the rain, but why now?  :-)
<karls> where are you?  what part of the world?
<mikki> Northern Virginia, USA
<mikki> we are in the midst of a drought
<karls> Ahh.  I remember reading about that.
<karls> I think that CT is predicted to get those thunderstorms tomorrow.
<mikki> yes...and I was supposed to fly from DC to NH tomorrow.  Might have to cancel
<karls> Good luck...
<mikki> thanks :-)
<karls> I wish that I understood what's going on at the meetings -- I'm new to this.
<mikki> it's not much better for those of us who have been invovled either :-)
<mikki> they keep changing the agenda, and there is very little real notice of what is going to go on
<JoshElliott> Has the meeting restarted yet?
<karls> not yet
<JoshElliott> thakns
<karls> hp
<karls> although now there is interesting music...
<karls> video is up from Berkman
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<mikki> already/  thought it wasn't up til 3...damn.  I have all this work to do :-)
<DennisSchaefer> hey, the 9th!
<karls> but it hasn't started yet
<mikki> that's good :-)
<mikki> hmmm..it's saying file not found
<karls> I think that the 9th is better in person, IMHO.
<mikki> I think I fixed it
<karls> are you lookink at REUNA or Berkman?
<DennisSchaefer> not quite that von karajan sound to be sure
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<mikki> I'm on the berkman feed
<ThomasLowenhaupt> Are you receiving?
<karls> me too
<karls> yes, I'm receiving...
<mikki> yes
<DennisSchaefer> mason, are you jeff mason?
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<karls> I think that he's on break...
<mlangston> Hi everyone.  Sorry I missed this morning on IRC.  My company's had our upstream feed down all day.
<DennisSchaefer> thanks, karl --- hi mark
<JoshElliott> mason=Jeff Mason
* paulds is back from the dead. Gone 1 hrs 28 min 10 secs
<mlangston> At least I managed to see this morning's session.
<DennisSchaefer> Thanks Josh --  you must've skipped lunch
<JonZittrain> Meeting is about to reconvene.
<karls> Hi Jon
<JonZittrain> Greetings
<karls> having fun?
<JoshElliott> I don't eat - its only 11:25AM here
<mlangston>  
<mikki> esther really ought to watch those "quips"
<mlangston> no kidding.
<mason> time for the show?
<mlangston> think she'll announce that ICANN's about to bomb Russia too?
<karls> 5 min.
<mikki> ICANN will shut down the root zones in 5 minutes :-)
<karls> that's not what I ment!
<mlangston> heh.
<DennisSchaefer> why not: it aspires to create new international law
<mlangston> huh?  Did I just hear Jeff Williams mentioned?
<mikki> oh man...talking about jeff williams?!?!
<DennisSchaefer> i missed that;  what was it?
<paulds> wow.  REUNA video is now only 30-40 seconds behind their audio.  Much better.
<mikki> Jeff Williams doesn't exist, folks...helloooooo :-)
<RichardLindsay> I thought he was going to be the next ICANN CEO?
<mlangston> heh.
<paulds> He runs the secret shadow BoD
<JonZittrain> www.icann.orgr/santiago
<paulds> :)
<edelman> just a reminder -- please refresh your main broadcast.asp page.  a few things have changed with the tech, nothing anyone needs to worry about but worth doing please.
<mlangston> Feh.  It changes 1998 to 1999.
<anonymous> whoever is on audio should figure out that he just broadcast the tones for his phone card over the internet
<mlangston> gah.  too many people are using the Berkman realvideo server.
<mikki> I sent a comment...hello?
<mlangston> what's happening?  I can't get a feed.
<paulds> mark, did you try the REUNA feed?
<mlangston> Paul:  It requires RealPlayer G2.  There's no such beaxt for UNIX.
<paulds> ooh, didn't notice that requirment
<paulds> requirement even
<paulds> sux
<mlangston> sucks even more because all I want is an audio feed, but I have to use the Berkman RV server.
<mlangston> It's the only one configured to pass streams via HTTP.
<mlangston> But it's full.
<mikki> oh...I made a mistake as to what was being considered...never mind ;-)
<mikki> <--rosanne rosannadanna today
<karls> I'll try to give you my slot, as I have the G2...
<edelman> sorry about the firewall stuff, guys.  realservers are suspiciously like black magic in my experience.
<edelman> will have it totally fixed for next time (i hope)
<mlangston> no problem, except when I get rebufered connections, they die.  Our proxy doesn't like that, apparently.
<edelman> anon, you're right.  we fix that and stop that.
<mlangston> aha!
<karls> you should be able to get on to Berkman now; I'm off.
<mlangston> got a slot.  Thanks if that was you, Karl.
<karls> no prob,
<mlangston> I feel somewhat bad taking a video slot when all I wanted was an audio feed...
<mlangston> who's speaking right now?
<NickPatience> linda wilson
<mlangston> thanks.\
<mikki> wonder if the GAC will be excluded?
<mlangston> heh!
<mikki> nope, guess not...GAC won't be excluded
<mlangston> Sounds like GAC is ruled out htere also.
<mikki> what a surprise
<mikki> hope so...didn't hear them excluded
<mlangston> All members of advisory committees.
<karls> what did I miss while I was reconnecting?
<mlangston> Is this written down anywhere?  It's an earful/brainful.
<karls> I'll read the scribe's notes after the meetings.
<MichaelFroomkin> jon z- note the Menge comments; the sba office is important...
<mikki> current or former judges?!?!?
<mikki> gee, how bout me?  I'm a WIPO trained mediator.  LOL
<MichaelFroomkin> It's very common in other countries for judges to do stuff like this.
<mikki> quick, Michael....let's nominate ourselves to the bench ;-)
<mlangston> Yep.  Michael and Mikki should be on that.
<mikki> and diane :-) and Dan Steinberg and Karl A
<mason> fill it up with lawyers
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<mason> it's going to be given to the lawyers - a guranteed failure
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<MikkiBarry> wow...this stopped working completely, then wouldn't let me get back in
<MichaelFroomkin> I don't think I'd want to be part of the review committee.  I think Ethan is perfect for it,though.
<dinesh> what time did this meeting start ?
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<karls> around 12:30, I think
<dinesh> cant be 12:30. they broke for lunch at 1.24pm
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<dinesh> hey sri
<karls> EST
<andyg> what was the question?
<paulds> broke for lunch at 12:30pm EDT
<dinesh> andyg: what time did the meeting start after lunch ?
<karls> sorry... 2:30
<SrikanthNarra> hi dinesh, andy , dennis, michael
<SrikanthNarra> mikki
<DennisSchaefer> Is the IRP substantially different from Michael Froomkin's proposal?
<DennisSchaefer> Hey Sri, welcome back.  It's enlightening.
<andyg> about 2.30. not sure, I was across the road getting a sprite at the supermercado
<SrikanthNarra> ..lol..andy how does it look so far ?
<SrikanthNarra> which one dennis ?
<andyg> we got the fob-off once again. Watch them fast-track WIPO later this afternoon
<SrikanthNarra> I want to request them to hold the meeting on a weekend - to whome should i post comments ?
<DennisSchaefer> Can't remember the name:  independent watchdog group.
<SrikanthNarra> i know..how much time to we have before that ?
<SrikanthNarra> k
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<MikkiBarry> hi bret
<BretFausett> hi. who is this talking?
<andyg> Theresa Amato?
<SrikanthNarra> got the video and audio going
<edelman> yes, amato
<SrikanthNarra> can i get a fast update ?
<BretFausett> What's her affiliation?
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<JonZittrain> No remote comments on this topic so far.
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<karls> hey tommy
<tommyg> hi hilary
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<dinesh> is jun murai sitting at the board ? i havent seen him nor heard him yet
<edelman> he presented re root servers, earlier in day
<BretFausett> he spoke this am on the root servers
<ThomasLowenhaupt> Trying to submit an online comment and am having trouble with the 1000 character limit.
<JonZittrain> send what you can; I sense they're about to wrap up this section
<ThomasLowenhaupt> I started with 3,367. And am now down to 963 as per my WP. Still being rejected.
<SrikanthNarra> Dave crocker is representing himself as a member of IDNO
<edelman> do you know about hte word bug whereby word doesn't count spaces or some such, as i recall?  came up in a legal context as i recall, don't know specifics.
<JonZittrain> footnotes
<edelman> otherwise, if you really are below 1000, send message to wilbanks@cyber.law.harvard.edu.
<edelman> but that's not a general procedure for everyone, please!
<edelman> wilbanks will check character count himself first, i'm sure...
<dinesh> thomas: your comments are on the web page
<FrancoisMenard> is karl on the chat, ?
<MikkiBarry> on rats ben :-)
<edelman> huh?
<karls> Karl S. or Karl A.?
<dinesh> karl a.
<FrancoisMenard> A
<MichaelFroomkin> Offline.  I hope someone posts a summary somewhere....
<SrikanthNarra> can someone type what is being said i am stuck with congestion
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<dianecabell> issue of geographical representation on Review Board was raised and Board will take g.r. as "desirable"
<dianecabell> but not an absolute criteria.  Review is not a "representational" thing, it's a legal thing
<SrikanthNarra> thanks diane
<FrancoisMenard> how soon could new gTLDs be operational ?
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<dianecabell> andrew thanking MAC for work Nii, Izumi, Ziegfried, me
<SrikanthNarra> just got the connection back
<dianecabell> andrew recognizing Berkman work on getting MAC stuff otgethr
<dianecabell> Andrew presenting MAC model
<dianecabell> Crew has alternate proposal tba next
<dianecabell> Berlin resolutions mentioned, implementation effort begun by staff
<edelman> diane, esther says to send you her regards
<dianecabell> analysis of CAL law on membership criteria
<dianecabell> Big Hug.
<MikkiBarry> gee, esther didn't send ME her regards.  LOL
<dianecabell> Volunteer, Mik
<MikkiBarry> is the domain name dispute policy being back burnered?
<MikkiBarry> I'm already a volunteer for everything I do, diane :(  I actually need to make money someday :-)
<dianecabell> staff proposes parity between SO and At-large
<dianecabell> dinesh, tell me when I can stop transciribing
<dinesh> diana: i'm fine. i think sri is the one who needed transcribing
<dianecabell> At Large Council proposed to oversee election, ensure validity, etc. processs managers
<dinesh> oops, sorry. diane instead of diana
<dianecabell> Say when,  Josh
<SrikanthNarra> diane it comes on and off- please continue for a few more mins
<dianecabell> global representation minimum standard needed (a quorum) suggested 5000 minimum enrollment
<JonZittrain> diane-> there are scribe's notes, too...I think JW is refreshing them regularly
<dianecabell> can we read them on chat?
<dianecabell> Oh, online?
<JonZittrain> nope.  something to think of for nov.
<JoshElliott> I'm back - what happened?
<JonZittrain> yes, refreshed off the realtime page.
<dianecabell> andrew presenting at-large
<SrikanthNarra> jon u have the url ?
<JoshElliott> ok
<SrikanthNarra> dennis, mikki - where is andy ?
<dianecabell> financing of membership: first elections are free
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<SrikanthNarra> got it diane - thanks
<SrikanthNarra> andy u there ?
<FrancoisMenard> how about a 1$ fee per vote ?
<andyg> I just came back on. Had connection problems
<edelman> neat idea ... scribe's notes on chat ... between word macros and some other tricks i might be able to do it.  will look into it.
<BretFausett> What would I get for $10
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<dianecabell> Hey JW
<edelman> MIKKI i think the regards were to diane because of her participation on the MAC
<JohnWilbanks> thomas--which of your two comments would you prefer to have read aloud?
<JohnWilbanks> hi DC
<JohnWilbanks> hmmm, no answer from tom lowenhaupt...paging thomas lowenhaupt...
<MikkiBarry> I know, ben...I'm just being contrary
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<paulds> hhaha
<paulds> or 95,000...
<MikkiBarry> slam jeff williams :-)
<dianecabell> hang on, we have a failure here
<paulds> ROFL
<karls> what is ROFL??
<SrikanthNarra> lost it again - am i the only one loosing the connection
<paulds> Rolling On the Floor Laughing
<paulds> my REUNA feed is still live
<dinesh> conn breaks and comes back, i lose 1-2 secs each time
<JohnWilbanks> over and out, we're having major problems with our telephone carrier -- going to reset the berkman audio feeds
<karls> oh :-)
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<dianecabell> in process...on all fours
<edelman> anyone want to pay for four hours of international calls to santiago/
<edelman> ?
<MikkiBarry> Ask Joe Simms :-)  he makes more money than we do ;-)
<edelman> send your calling card number to me via email!
<paulds> hah
<edelman> just kidding.
<dianecabell> he hsn't been paid, tho, MIk
<MikkiBarry> you can bet his firm pays him just fine, diane :-)
<SrikanthNarra> diane can u help with fast update ?
<dianecabell> no argument there, Mik
<ThomasLowenhaupt> Jon, that's a quick edit of one 3,360 character message into three <1000 character.
<dianecabell> andrew talking oparity'
<dianecabell> about parity
<MikkiBarry> I've asked my cats for contributions to mortgage, but they just yawn and eat more cat food :-)
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<SrikanthNarra> got it thanks diane
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<BretFausett> is Crew's intermediate committee a good idea?
<dianecabell> I think members of the NC are more likely to bring derivative suits than at-large
<paulds> whole thing makes me itch
<BretFausett> MAC II?
<karls> well then make a comment and scratch!
<dianecabell> I missed the alternative model.  What was  Crew recommending?
<DennisSchaefer> Anyone:  Did Amato from the Nader group break any new ground? (I wuz out)
<SrikanthNarra> not too sure dennis i am out of video
<edelman> for those of you unhappy about 1000 characters max per message...
<dinesh> why is she giving jon a hard time ?
<edelman> menge's message went over and wouldn't fit on one screen.
<dianecabell> she's not, she's read the letter and wants the bottom line due to shortage of time
<MikkiBarry> skip the fluff?  sheesh
<dinesh> diane: ok, so the online comments appear on the screen as jon reads them ?
<edelman> others less than 1000 characters all have fit on a screen which is much better imho -- not just more manageable, but also much easier for audience to read if i'm not scrolling the message while they're trying to read it.
<dianecabell> yes
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<edelman> yes, online comments on screen -- when i don't mess it up.
<DennisSchaefer> is that josh or ben beside jon?
<edelman> (has worked properly every time so far.)
<JonZittrain> Sorry--got particularly flummoxed b/c SBA's comment was by email
<dianecabell> john wilbankd
<edelman> me, then john wilbanks, then jon zittrain
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<dinesh> izumi is based here in kuala lumpur
<SrikanthNarra> dinesh where are the comments scrolling ?
<dianecabell> on one of the large screens behind the Board
<MikkiBarry> hey diane...looks like ICANN paid Sims
<MikkiBarry> they took out that loan and paid sims
<MikkiBarry> http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/icann/santiago/archive/financial-projections-through-8-31-99.html
<andyg> Dennis, Amato made some good comments, but was larely (surprise) fobbed off
<SrikanthNarra> thanks mikki
<dianecabell> I beliebve they paid a bunch of his expenses. did they pay his time, too?
<DennisSchaefer> Thanks Andy --  I loved her quote in the NYT today!
<MikkiBarry> looks like it...they paid "prior year invoices" and "july/august" invoices
<MikkiBarry> they have another list for "july/august invoices unbilled/unpaid" for only 250K
<BretFausett> and now they're practically broke again.
<dinesh> what are derivative actions and how does it come to play here ?
<MikkiBarry> So much for pro-bono.  I'm sorry, but I don't know whether to laugh, cry, or throw up
<andyg> Theresa speaking agin
<BretFausett> you bring an action on behalf of the corporation because you believe the officers and directors are not acting the corp.s best interests
<DennisSchaefer> Go for it, Theresa!
<dianecabell> Mik, where does it say that money went to Sims?
<MikkiBarry> Is it true that roberts contracted for this type of thing, and the board retroactively affimed it?
<dinesh> bret: ok, then izumi's point is exactly my views as well, about US-centricity
<MikkiBarry> simms said in the congressional hearings that ICANN owed Jones Day approsimately 800K
<MikkiBarry> If he was not paid, it would be in the unpaid invoices
<dianecabell> so you conclude that is what the "paid invoices" is for.  I think there are huge amounts of expenses, hotel bills for all the meetings, etc. tghat are inlcuded in those payments.
<DennisSchaefer> APPLAUSE!
<MikkiBarry> one million 50 thousand dollars worth?
<SrikanthNarra> clap clap
<ThomasLowenhaupt> John, the key comment was the call for a four part membership drive.
<dianecabell> I'm not on the same page as you. Where are you.
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<BretFausett> Kudos to DC there.
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<MikkiBarry> damn machines
<SrikanthNarra> who is the person talking now ?
<MikkiBarry> page is http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/icann/santiago/archive/financial-projections-through-8-31-99.html
<dianecabell> roberts and now zittrain
<MikkiBarry> look under disbursements
<SrikanthNarra> i lost the connection
<SrikanthNarra> if they read my comments please can someone type the response to me
<DennisSchaefer> sri, you're on
<edelman> just read yours.
<edelman> narra, that is.
<SrikanthNarra> yes dennis
<MikkiBarry> <--must be very lagged
<SrikanthNarra> not able to hear anything
<SrikanthNarra> thanks ben
<edelman> narra, which feed?
<SrikanthNarra> pls read out
<DennisSchaefer> esther wants to hear what registrars think about your idea
<edelman> narra, what?  clarify?
<dinesh> sri: would require working with registrars and get their views
<SrikanthNarra> k
<SrikanthNarra> ben not too sure
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<SrikanthNarra> want me to try yours ?
<SrikanthNarra> trying ben
<SrikanthNarra> got on the reuna
<SrikanthNarra> thanks for help
<dianecabell> Mikki, there's no detail on what the payments are for.
<SrikanthNarra> dennis / dinesh what did they say about my comments ?
<DennisSchaefer> Sri -- esther said she wanted to hear what registrars thought about your idea.  Javier I couldn't follow.
<MikkiBarry> barrel is not empty :-)
<DennisSchaefer> only half empty?
<SrikanthNarra> thanks dennis
<MikkiBarry> Diane, if there were over a million dollars in expenses that did NOT include 800K for Jones Day, then what the hell are they spending for?
<dianecabell> THey are paying all of the Board members's transportation and hotel costs in addition to all the meeting bills.
<MikkiBarry> Jon, I submitted one :-)
<MikkiBarry> uh, one million dollars worth, diane?  come on.
<JonZittrain> Yep, just got it
<DennisSchaefer> Have to leave.  Talk to you later from home as I answer emails!
<MikkiBarry> if it cost over a million for the ICANN world tour, then it defintely needs to be curtailed
* andyg is away since 4:01:23 PM - automagically set away after 10 min idling. Msglog [ON]
<MikkiBarry> and someone put in place who has run internet start ups and knows how to cut costs :-)
<SrikanthNarra> bye dennis
<SrikanthNarra> comeback on fast
<dinesh> later, dennis
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<dianecabell> I don't know what the bills are for; I'm just saying that Jones Day isn't their only cost.
<DennisSchaefer> hasta temprano todo el mundo!
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<SrikanthNarra> what is icann pr budget ?
<dinesh> ben i just lost video -- blue screen -- from the berkman feed
<dianecabell> I've lost the Video on the 5.0
<karls> Ben, I'm getting bluescreen on the video
<SrikanthNarra> same here
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<BretFausett> blue screen of death?
<JoshElliott> same
<MikkiBarry> wow...I lost video/audio/IRC all at once
<MikkiBarry> I didn't think my comment would cause THAT reaction :-)
<dianecabell> Mikki they just said the next comment will be yours
<edelman> will check video in a bit, but righ tnow too many remote comments for jw to go check.  
<edelman> so no vid for a bit.
<JonZittrain> yeah, but someone else started talking while I was inhaling.
* andyg is back
<andyg> Too slow, Jon!
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<paulds> REUNA video/audio still going ok here...
<MikkiBarry> Andy!  Karl says Dave Crocker says he represents IDNO
<MikkiBarry> somebody has to say something
<MikkiBarry> on the online commentary
<dianecabell> karl has made three or four points also
<MikkiBarry> how do we get to the REUNA feed?
<andyg> THe way I read it, his suject line suggested that IDNO was representing the individual, and his text suggested he was uncomfortable with that.
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<edelman> is video back.
<dianecabell> yes
<karls> Ben/ JW, thanks for video
<edelman> use link on broadcast.asp to get into your choice of feed.
<JoshElliott> thanks
<MikkiBarry> ok :-)  was Karl's email :-)
<edelman> i think someone kicked the cable or something ... we sat here and kept working while it broke and then fixed itself as far as we're concerned.
<andyg> Certainly, the subject line of crockers comment _could_ be misread as his proporting to represent IDNO
<MikkiBarry> ah...feed is back
<SrikanthNarra> is there any thing we can do to reflect that right ?
<andyg> Put a statement in the on-line comments stating that his subject line might confuse people and that he definitely does not represent the IDNO
<edelman> will try to do so, andy
<andyg> thanks ben
<SrikanthNarra> thanks ben
<dinesh> i submitted a comment about why i think idno should not be pushed to at-large
<SrikanthNarra> good one dennis
<SrikanthNarra> dinesh
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<MikkiBarry> so the WIPO thing is going to be last, and when the room has to be cleared out again?
<MikkiBarry> is the open board meeting going ot be broadcast?
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<MikkiBarry> hi william
<paulds> yes
<WilliamX> Hi Mikki, and everyone else
<SrikanthNarra> hi wx
<karls> hi
<Muad-Dib> yes, you can visit this URL www.reuna.cl/icann
<andyg> They deal with the tricky stuff when everyone is tired and hungry, to ensure it's dealt with quickly
<MikkiBarry> cool :-)
<SrikanthNarra> wx can u post a fast on to comments on preventing pushing idno to atlarge board
<andyg> welcomeWilliam
<MikkiBarry> uh oh...Ken is getting excited :-)
<Muad-Dib> greetings from Santiago de Chile. Auditorium FACEA
<WilliamX> sri : I just joined, I do not know what is going on
<dinesh> andyg, jon, ben: could we have the comments on the screen, especially so if they're not reading anymore from it ?
<MikkiBarry> hi Muad-Dib
<Muad-Dib> anyone are watching the icann´s broadcast ?
<dianecabell> yes
<dinesh> muad: i think we all are, arent we ?
<Muad-Dib> ok
<edelman> yeah, each comment is on screen while being read.
<paulds> aboot? :)
<andyg> Muad-Dib, where are you sitting?
<dinesh> ben: i was talking about comments which are not being read out aloud.
<Muad-Dib> i´m sitting in the second floor
<ThomasLowenhaupt> is there a way to see these "screen comments"?
<andyg> directly opposite the sound desk?
<edelman> ah.  don't wan tto display those on screen... too distracting, we decided after trying same in berlin.  either people read them and it's distracting, or the messages are ignored.   either is bad.  anyone disagree?
<paulds> Ben, those comments are still going to be forwarded to the BoD for consideration, yes?
<Muad-Dib> the problem is the size of the screen, is too small for the letters
<andyg> Are you in the control room, Muad?
<edelman> i know.  it's all the local organizers had for me.  i asked for bigger...
<dinesh> ok, ben
<Muad-Dib> andyg, yes
<andyg> ah. that's why I can't see you. You are hiding behind the translator booths!
<Muad-Dib> bigger what?
<andyg> video screen
<Muad-Dib> yep
<Muad-Dib> andyg, lookme now
<MikkiBarry> no history of USE?
<MikkiBarry> sheesh
<andyg> wave, muad!
<dinesh> i wonder if they'll ignore me again ?
<dinesh> yup, they've ignored me again.
<FrancoisMenard> .................0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
<FrancoisMenard> sorry
<andyg> 20 minute break
<MikkiBarry> *sigh*
<andyg> brb
<FrancoisMenard> slow paced ...
<dinesh> thanks for reading it anyway, jon.
<Muad-Dib> yep
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<paulds> REUNA just froze.
<paulds> no audio, video stuck on some bald guy
<karls> they're taking a break
<paulds> froze before the break
<Muad-Dib> yes
<paulds> maybe someone was just overly eager.
<paulds> oh well
<Muad-Dib> we stop the broadcast
<MikkiBarry> you know what we really need?  we need ICANN to mandate standards for footnotes in HTML :-)
<Muad-Dib> for store the video
<paulds> brb
*** paulds is now known as paulds_brb
<Muad-Dib> and make the new links in the web
<anonymous> we sure the break is 20 minutes?
<WilliamX> that was what Esther said
<MikkiBarry> we're never sure of anything, anonymous :-)
<WilliamX> but that doesn't mean much
<anonymous> fair enough.
<Muad-Dib> well, the people need to drink a coffe, eat cokkies, move the legs, you know
<anonymous> has anyone tried to work the archive RA yet?
<SrikanthNarra> ben ?
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<anonymous> Sorry that should have been archived RealVideo...
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<RichardLindsay> its 5:30am here, I am dying... see you tomorrow
<mlangston> Did I miss anything interesting?
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<MikkiBarry> they're on a break, mlangston
<SrikanthNarra> hi mark
<mlangston> Hi Sri.  Thanks, Mikki. 
<SrikanthNarra> felt like a blind man without u to help navigate :)
<MikkiBarry> <--can't navigate....gets lost all the time :-)
* andyg is away since 4:35:36 PM - automagically set away after 10 min idling. Msglog [ON]
<mlangston> C now?
<mlangston> So, are we all ISOC now?
<MikkiBarry> hope not...they are not my friends
<SrikanthNarra> ..lol...gosh not that bad i hope
<mlangston> (sorry, I've been looking over the scribe's notes and comments.  I should know better than to eat before doing that. )
<mlangston> Just looks like we've been railroaded into a system created to keep us in line. 
<MikkiBarry> well, mark...that is a feeling many have shared since before IFWP
<mlangston> Oh, I know.  We should be used to it by now.
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<MikkiBarry> yet we're kinda like lemmings, we keep falling off the cliff
<MikkiBarry> we keep trying, plugging at it, and the outcome is never different
<MikkiBarry> still, I think it's better than it would have been had we not gotten involved
<SrikanthNarra> i think so too..
<SrikanthNarra> mikki wat is ur take on avery judgement yesterday
<SrikanthNarra> what in wipo goes against it ?
<MikkiBarry> its encouraging
<SrikanthNarra> what in wipo proposal goes against it
<MikkiBarry> well, If you read my congressional stuff I just sent you, there is an analysis of what in the dispute policy is bad
<MikkiBarry> it is slanted again towards large businesses with trademarks
<MikkiBarry> another case of intellectual property interests wanting more protection on the internet than they have anywhere else
<SrikanthNarra> i am looking for any key thing in it from a legal perspective that strikes so contradictory in the report
<MikkiBarry> I haven't gone through the whole opinion yet, sri....but we have to remember that it was only a denial of a motion for summary judgement
<SrikanthNarra> but they did suggest granting damages right
<MikkiBarry> and it doesn't really say that individuals have any rights at all...essentially it says that if a bunch of other companies have trademarks that are similar, you can't claim dilution
<MikkiBarry> well, they remanded it to the district court to see if circumstances were egregious enough to award fees
<MikkiBarry> but I very much doubt that would happen, given that the district court originally ruled in the plaintiff's favor
<SrikanthNarra> i see
<SrikanthNarra> thanks mikki
<MikkiBarry> while it's a good case, and it's very encouraging, we still have to battle cases like "jews for jesus"
<MikkiBarry> and the real war - domain name holders being reverse hijacked and not having the money to fight it
<SrikanthNarra> i know
<mlangston> ...and mandatory arbitration...and things like the Abraham bill.
<MikkiBarry> the dispute policy has no means of forcing challengers to pay damages
<MikkiBarry> I can see mandatory alternative dispute resolution if it is mediation
<MikkiBarry> just not arbitration...
<mlangston> Depends on who appoints the mediator...
<mlangston> ...and what the requirements are for jusirdiction, etc.
<mlangston> Things like "mandatory immediate mediation using our people in our home state, and tough luck if you're in another country, you forfeit" don't sit well with me. :)
<MikkiBarry> online mediation would be great if we could do it
<MikkiBarry> mediation is never binding
<mlangston> true.  But we've more than seen how resistant this bunch is to online anything.  Hell, they don't like using e-mail.
<MikkiBarry> oftentimes, you can deal with a dispute just by getting people to talk to each other, finding out what each REALLY wants out of it
<FrancoisMenard> why isin't the DOC mandating that the NSI TLD registry for .com/net/org be shared with competitors ?
<MikkiBarry> lots of the trademark holders have been taught that any use whatsoever of the character string is infringement and they have to stomp on the evil infringer
<WilliamX> Mark, you know how opposed I am to mandatory arbitration, but mediation...thats an interesting twist
<anonymous> but how would that help?  couldn't a squatter just sit through mediation and then still say it's cheaper to pay him than go to court?
<mlangston> But mediation would just allow companies toget people to tip their hands, while they proceed in legal venues to sue their pants off.
<mlangston> There'd be nothing to prevent the pursuit of legal action in parallel with the mediation.
<mlangston> And that's just another case of, "he who has the most money wins."
<MikkiBarry> maybe it is cheaper to pay him than go to court, but tell me why the company didn't either register their name prior, or register something close to it
<MikkiBarry> and tell the "squatter" to get lost?
<WilliamX> well, thats always the case in the legal system, mark
<WilliamX> I don't see us coming up with a solution to that problem
* Muad-Dib has returned
<MikkiBarry> that's what laws and courts are really good at
<mlangston> I know William.  I'm just being bitter.  It's hard to become a curmudgeon if everyone keeps pointint out reality to you. :)
<WilliamX> heh
<Muad-Dib> the "20 minutes break" 
<anonymous> ...should be just about over, yes
<mlangston> What burns me is that all of this is already covered by TM and IP law.
*** paulds_brb is now known as paulds
<mlangston> There's no need to add more falderal.  It's all there, with a legal system in which it can be implemented.
<Muad-Dib> ben, are you there?
<paulds> yeah, the registrars etc should just stay the heck out of the way as much as possible.
<mlangston> In a sense, this does an end run around precedent by attempting to avoid getting into a position where precedent could be set.
<paulds> the legal system is messy enough
<dinesh> 3 minutes and counting....
<WilliamX> and that is precisely the point I make
<WilliamX> the case law is not fleshed out
<Muad-Dib> at least
<MikkiBarry> I just wish there was an action for reverse hijacking
<WilliamX> and they seek to remove these cases from the courts
<paulds> and no policy we try to create is going to prevent the legal options corporations will take anyway. :/
<MikkiBarry> the way to flesh out case law is to flesh out the case law :-)
<MikkiBarry> not by going around it
<WilliamX> before the courts have an opportunity to really work out these issues
<paulds> 'zactly
<mlangston> so, who volunteers to be sued? ;)
<paulds> me, sue me.
<WilliamX> heh
<MikkiBarry> someone accused me of being a cybersquatter once, and tried to get my domain name
<mlangston> You know what we need?  We need the ACLU to take a position on this, and fight.
<MikkiBarry> unluckily for them, I had a registered trademark.
<dinesh> which one, mikki ?
<MikkiBarry> cyberflight.com
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<paulds> I'm still waiting for Toys R Us to come knocking on my door about quotes-r-us.org, which I run for fun with a friend.
<Muad-Dib> vVR ?
<mlangston> This isn't going to be resolved until there's clear legal precedent set.
* andyg is back
<andyg> session about to re-start
<MikkiBarry> even then, mark...it won't be "resolved"
<paulds> They gave some serious legal hell to Roadkills-R-Us a few years back.
<paulds> ...said people might be confused. :)
<mlangston> paul:  Register f*cknuggets-r-us, see if they want that associated with them. ;)
<MikkiBarry> people will continue to sue, just like in car accident law, that is supposedly "set"
<paulds> hehe
<Muad-Dib> watch the broadcast
<JonZittrain> mtg back online.
<MikkiBarry> *sigh*  so much for wanting to do the WIPO stuff before everyone is asleep
<paulds> Muad, is REUNA feed up yet?  I'm not seeing it...
<WilliamX> did you expect any different Mikki?
<MikkiBarry> was hoping, william....
* WilliamX is jaded :)
<paulds> ah, there. :)
<MikkiBarry> shouldn't "at large" mean exactly that?
<paulds> I think it's not a terribly great idea...
<WilliamX> so hear comments only in support and not opposed, Esther?
<paulds> not necessarily catastrophic, but seems needlessly goofy
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<Jeff> Hi everyone!  >;)
<Muad-Dib> hi
<Jeff> So what is the agenda here??
<paulds> 95...
<karls> greetings Jeff
<Muad-Dib> paulds, check your connection
<Jeff> karls, Greetings!
<paulds> muad, all set now
<Muad-Dib> okz
<Muad-Dib> cool
<Jeff> Let's rock!
*** Jeff is now known as Jeff-INEGroup
<Jeff-INEGroup> Ok ready to rock all???
<Jeff-INEGroup> Or do we twidel oru thumbs?  >;)
<SrikanthNarra> mark i tried aclu - no use
<MikkiBarry> ignore works here too
<Jeff-INEGroup> Woops!  Our thumbs...
<mlangston> drat.  I keep losing the only feed I can use.
<Jeff-INEGroup> Who's pinging me??
* paulds prefers to twiddle rocks.
<karls> twiddle rocks???
<MikkiBarry>   "/ignore [nick] all" works
<WilliamX> yes and I urge people to use it
* paulds doesn't always make sense, karl
<Jeff-INEGroup> ROFLMAO!  ok lets get serious here shall we everyone?
<paulds> :)
<WilliamX> especially with regards to those who are here only to disrupt
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<mlangston> Mmmmm.   Quiet.
<Jeff-INEGroup> That is ok William, We understand you propensity for that sort of thing...  Just try to keep it an a min.
<paulds> Aye.
* andyg is away since 5:06:14 PM - automagically set away after 10 min idling. Msglog [ON]
<dinesh> option 1
<edelman> the REUNA broadcast stops during breaks in the meeting.
<paulds> option 1
<Jeff-INEGroup> Ben, are questions from here going to the ICANN BoD?
* andyg is back
<andyg> here's comes the DRP!
<NickPatience> are these seats dedicated by geographic region?
<Jeff-INEGroup> Hi andyg what's up today?? :)
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<andyg> andy tired!
<Jeff-INEGroup> Hi MikkiBarry what's up today?? :)
<SrikanthNarra> hi jeff
<Jeff-INEGroup> andyg, Sorry about that andy.  I just got back from the dentist myself, very depressing!  :(
<mlangston> ICANn *staff* report?  Is this seperate from the WG-A rec?
<paulds> anybody have that URL handy, who can paste it here?
<Jeff-INEGroup> Hay! What's up this evening?? ;))
<WilliamX> yes it is mark
<mlangston> ah.
<Jeff-INEGroup> Hi SrikanthNarra what's up today?? :)
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<Jeff-INEGroup> Paul, no I don't, handy anyway...
<Jeff-INEGroup> Paul, what did you have in mind?
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<Jeff-INEGroup> Hi Rick what's up today?? :)
<Jeff-INEGroup> Hi NickPatience what's up today?? :)
<Jeff-INEGroup> Where is Esther the molester?
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<Jeff-INEGroup> Paul, what did you have in mind, again???
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<Muad-Dib> i´m tired :(
<dinesh> it's 5am here, _I_ am tired. ;)
<Jeff-INEGroup> Ben, do we send questions th the ICANN BoD from here now or what??  I am ready to rock!
<WilliamX> Mr Williams, if you had taken the time to read http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/icann/santiago/ you would answer your own questions
<Jeff-INEGroup> dinesh, <----- is this Dennis?  
<WilliamX> perhaps you can go do that now
<WilliamX> rather than wasting our time
<Jeff-INEGroup> WilliamX, I did, very unclear.. 
<WilliamX> they are very clear
<WilliamX> and very concise
<Muad-Dib> ben, what do you think about the last night´s cocktail?
<mlangston> Oh, is he still here?  I didn't notice. ;)
<WilliamX> the berkman staff did a great job
<WilliamX> and no one else has had any problems understanding
<Jeff-INEGroup> WilliamX, Yeah like muddy water..
<dinesh> yes, kudos to the berkman folk for providing this feed
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<Muad-Dib> yeah!, they´re working really hard
<andyg> The meat in sauce was nice
<karls> Applause!
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<Jeff-INEGroup> What kind of meat was that, goat?  >;)
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<dinesh> video died on th 5.0 feed
<WilliamX> JEff, comments like that are inappropriate and really do not belong here
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<karls> has all focus left the chat?
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<mlangston> I notice Johnathan wore a suit today.  Yesterday must've been less important. :/
<paulds> ooh congestion
<SrikanthNarra> video audio both died
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<karls> the video looks fine to me.
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<SrikanthNarra> everytime this guys come up it dies
<SrikanthNarra> it was same yesterday
<Jeff-INEGroup> Ok I will start out on a subject line.  How about the Gac announcment earlier today?
<MikkiBarry> my video died
<dinesh> yup, and ben got knocked off irc. it might be a net failure at their end
<mlangston> Mine's dead.
<SrikanthNarra> mikki read the comments
<MikkiBarry> trying to
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<karls> video's dead too
<SrikanthNarra> i posted a limited summerization of our chat as a comment
<mlangston> ...and there goes andy.
<mlangston> Must be a .cl feed issue.
<Jeff-INEGroup> karls, Yeah it was dead yesterday most of the time.  :(
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<paulds> feh and muad too
<paulds> adios santiago
<Jeff-INEGroup> SrikanthNarra, Good for you.  Can you cut and past it here?  >;)
<mlangston> Let me guess:  Twomey's speaking. :)
<karls> the video was pretty good yesterday.  I was watching...
<dinesh> so, the net ain't bulletproof after all. ;)
<Jeff-INEGroup> Hi mlangston what's up today?? :)
<SrikanthNarra> not exactly wish i had
<mlangston> Sure it is.  It routes around BS. 
<dinesh> got video and audio back
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<Jeff-INEGroup> dinesh, Yep, never was and likely never will be bullet proof...
<dinesh> mark: ;)
<Muad-Dib> uff
<SrikanthNarra> thru..put a poor summerization instead
<dinesh> nope, audio's back, video isnt
<SrikanthNarra> same here
<paulds> Got audio back, no video
<JoshElliott> Ben, no video on the Berkman feed
<NickPatience> who's speaking?
<Jeff-INEGroup> So who has comments to the GAC's remarks posted earlier today?
<Muad-Dib> we´re troubles
<dinesh> rita
<mlangston> got the feed back.  no video.
<dinesh> muad, what's wrong ?
<NickPatience> rita who?
<MikkiBarry> my audio is back....which is good enough for me I guess :-)
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<Jeff-INEGroup> Not getting video here eiher on my other box.
<dinesh> rita rodin
<Muad-Dib> in this moment we got network troubles
<MikkiBarry> audio gone
<NickPatience> thanks dinesh. Who's she with?
<Jeff-INEGroup> Ben, audir is breaking up some once in awhile as well.
<dinesh> cant see, nick. all i got is audio
<Muad-Dib> and the video circuite is down
<NickPatience> OK, thanks anyway
<Muad-Dib> wait us one minute
<dinesh> i'm making educated guess off the agenda page
<dinesh> ahh, video is back
<mlangston> vid's back.
<SrikanthNarra> yep
<paulds> yay vid
<Jeff-INEGroup> Yep comming in here now too.
<mlangston> ...and gone.
<SrikanthNarra> and gone
<paulds> poop
<Jeff-INEGroup> Who keeps pining me?  LOL!
<WilliamX> give them a chance to get it working
<Jeff-INEGroup> Good idea william...
<dinesh> audio and video is down
* paulds longs for the future of IPv6 and QoS multicasting...
<Jeff-INEGroup> Of course they should have tested this stuff at least two weeks ago, but what the hay, eh?
<mlangston> Ick.
<WilliamX> audio only is working on the berkman center feed
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<mlangston> Yeah, I long for someone to sell me IPs in a space that has enough for every person on the planet to individually address every atom in the universe.  No, thanks.
<Jeff-INEGroup> Paul, Multicasting?  Parish the thought.  To advanced for ICANN I think!
* dinesh realizes that the realvideo screen looks exactly like my tv when clouds or heavy rain obstructs the ku band signals
<mlangston> I long for the elimination of artificial scarcity, that's what I long for.
<Jeff-INEGroup> mlangston, Try IPv8!  >;)
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<Jeff-INEGroup> mlangston, if you need the tunnels E-Mail me privately I go them.
<MikkiBarry> I'm getting neither audio or video...course it's only the most important part of the day for me
<DennisSchaefer> Hi all - I'm back.  No video or audio yet.
<WilliamX> mikki : use this location : http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/scripts/rammaker.asp?s=berkman&file=icann-live-082599-b1
<dinesh> dennis: they're having net problems in .cl
<Jeff-INEGroup> MikkiBarry, Oh, how come it is the most important part of the day??
<mlangston> It's all those INEGroup members hogging the feed.
<WilliamX> its an audio only feed from the Berkman center
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<paulds> haw
<Jeff-INEGroup> mlangston, ROFLMAO!  Yeah right!  >;)  I wish!
<DennisSchaefer> Mik/Sri:  did J Cohen intro the drp subject?  how was it?
<WilliamX> no, people in his ant farm don't have computers yet
<WilliamX> err, ants in his ant farm that is
<Jeff-INEGroup> Lame-o-Meter [--------{9}-] 9/10 WilliamX
<WilliamX> I rest my case
<dinesh> ok chaps, getting sleepy -- it's 5:24am here. so off to sleep i go. see you chaps tomorrow. 
<Jeff-INEGroup> Lame-o-Meter [---------{10}] 10/10 WilliamX is the master! I bow to WilliamX's lameness....
<paulds> nite
<DennisSchaefer> nite, dinesh
<mlangston> bye dinesh.
<WilliamX> can we get some moderation in here?
<Jeff-INEGroup> bye dinesh.
<karls> night
<JoshElliott> why not use this chat to discuss real issues
<NickPatience> Jeez, this is a waste of time
<Jeff-INEGroup> WilliamX, Good idea, take a hike!
<WilliamX> at the physical meeting someone being nothing but disruptive would be removed, can we get the same courtesy here?
<dinesh> william: /ignore jeff-inegroup all
<mlangston> who's being disruptive?  Jeff?  /ignore him.
<dinesh> bye all
<MikkiBarry> it doesn't work for me here on the mac....wonder why
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<WilliamX> done
<mlangston> audio/video's almost back.
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<paulds> almost? :)
<MikkiBarry> I got audio back..thanks william
<karls> except for the net congestion
<SrikanthNarra> good mark type us the updates !
<mlangston> lost it again while typing that sentence. :)
<Jeff-INEGroup> Added *!william@24.30.109.144 to ignore list
<DennisSchaefer> WX, did Jon Cohen make a presentation?
<WilliamX> not yet
<mlangston> But Rita Odin's still at the podium.
<Jeff-INEGroup> mlangston, Mark how are you comming through??
<DennisSchaefer> Whew!  I'm glad to know I can hear the happy news first hand.
<SrikanthNarra> no audio video here
<SrikanthNarra> pls someone type updates
<mlangston> I can't contact the server anymore...
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<WilliamX> use this location : http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/scripts/rammaker.asp?s=berkman&file=icann-live-082599-b1
<SrikanthNarra> hi dennis
<Jeff-INEGroup> I thought the updates department should beloneg to Ben...
<WilliamX> its an audio only feed
<WilliamX> hosted off the berkman center
<mlangston> Can't.  I can only use the Berkman RV feed.
<WilliamX> ahh
<WilliamX> thats right, firewall
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<mlangston> *nod*
<Jeff-INEGroup> mlangston, I am on that feed now works fine for me..
<mikki> that's better...a real IRC client :-)
<WilliamX> :)
<mlangston> heh!
<Jeff-INEGroup> mikki,  THere you go Mikki!  >;)
<mlangston> Come on over, the quiet's fine. :)
<mikki> much better :-)
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<WilliamX> can someone identify the current speakers name?
<Jeff-INEGroup> mikki, What are you using for IRc client?
<DennisSchaefer> HI Jeff -- still no audio or video for me.
<mlangston> Female, kinda nasal?
<Jeff-INEGroup> DennisSchaefer, VIdeo keeps poping out on me.  AUdio is good though now.
<SrikanthNarra> fellas whats happening someone with audio give a brief update
<WilliamX> they are pushing the UDP "approved" by the fatigured GA last night
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<mlangston> Wha...?  Who approved the UDP?  There was no approval.
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<Jeff-INEGroup> SrikanthNarra, I don't type that fast.  Anybody with a transfer script?
<WilliamX> yes it was, at the end of the meeting
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<WilliamX> it was pushed through when everyone wanted to wrap up
<mlangston> hey...might have connection back.
<Jeff-INEGroup> Hi JonZittrain what's up today?? :)
<paulds> still nothing here...
<JonZittrain> Yes, Net appears to be shakily back up.
<SrikanthNarra> trying plain audio now
<mikki> thanks jon
<SrikanthNarra> got thru
<WilliamX> Berkman Center Video is back and working
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<paulds> yay
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<edelman> net went down hard.
<edelman> but it's back up now.
<paulds> ok can anyone tell us what we missed?
<SrikanthNarra> got plain audio
<andyg> We're back, Lads!
<edelman> get onto santiago cybre video server while you can.
<edelman> 11 sessions and rising...
<edelman> 12
<edelman> 13
<edelman> ...
<DennisSchaefer> sri, where is it -- email?
<JonZittrain> perhaps we can update scribes notes
<karls> who is speaking?
<andyg> Ben, I couldn't get out past the local router. Someone must have kicked a cable out.
<SrikanthNarra> back on
<DennisSchaefer> Now i have video but no audio.  FUn!
<edelman> i don't know if it's that, 'cuz every so often i'd get a few bits through.
<edelman> which feed, dennis?
<SrikanthNarra> http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/icann/santiago/archive/showcomments.asp?sort=desc&mode=sub&day=8-25-99
<JonZittrain> Louis Touton of jones day.
<mikki> I have audio but no video :-)  too bad we aren't all together :-)  but I'd rather have the video
<edelman> what is that url, skiranth?
<mikki> I mean audio
<karls> Thanks Jon
<edelman> which feed, mikki?
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<mikki> I believe it's berkman.  I manually typed in an address william gave me
<SrikanthNarra> comments page
<edelman> i can't help if you can't tell me for sure.
<SrikanthNarra> for dennis
<SrikanthNarra> ben
<WilliamX> she is on the audio only (secondary) feed
<mikki> ok...standby...I'll try to reconnect
<WilliamX> we went to that when the video feed lost connection
<edelman> if anyone is having feed problems -- please tell me what hte problem is, and with what feed.  be specific or why waste your time...
<mikki> direct from web page for berkman is fine now on reconnect
<DennisSchaefer> ben -- i think my audio problem is with my pc... vol is full blast ... thanks
<SrikanthNarra> ben i am back online and ok
<SrikanthNarra> thanks
<Jeff-INEGroup> I will cut and paste here as fast as I can, ok everyone?
<Jeff-INEGroup> Will that work for everyone?
<andyg> This new DRP is rather different than before
<DennisSchaefer> yes
<andyg> I suppose you all missed the reading?
<Jeff-INEGroup> ok here goes!
<Jeff-INEGroup> Karl Auerbach (IDNO)
<Jeff-INEGroup>  Avoiding loaded words that prejudge the answer (Dispute Resolution Policy, 8/25/99 5:33:16
<Jeff-INEGroup>  PM, #488)
<Jeff-INEGroup>  We don't call those who speculate in land or fine art pejoritive names such as "land-squatter"
<Jeff-INEGroup>  or "arts-quatter". Let's recognize that in the domain name space, speculation is not an
<Jeff-INEGroup>  automatic wrong and drop the conclusionary word "cybersquatter".
<mikki> yes andy..is it the same as the one that came out a few days ago?
<Jeff-INEGroup> Ellen Rony (Domain Name Handbook)
<Jeff-INEGroup>  (Dispute Resolution Policy, 8/25/99 5:15:33 PM, #487)
<Jeff-INEGroup>  The consensus recommendation submitted on August 3 by the Names Council included no
<Jeff-INEGroup>  formal input either by the not-yet-recognized NCDHC 
<Jeff-INEGroup>  or by the general assembly of the at large members. 
<Jeff-INEGroup>  These issue are of major concern to the two unrepresented Internet groups -- non
<Jeff-INEGroup>  commercial users and individuals. 
<Jeff-INEGroup>  To move forward on this policy with this obvious shortcoming would be a travesty and
<Jeff-INEGroup>  disenfranchise arguably the largest unrepresented members of the Internet.\
<Jeff-INEGroup>  Why is there no time 
<andyg> Jeff, why are you copying on-line comments to IRC?
<WilliamX> just ignore him
<mikki> andy..../ignore 
<SrikanthNarra> jeff we got it going thanks
<paulds> andy, /ignore jeff-inegroup all
<mikki> berkman feed has stopped again
<paulds> D0h
<Jeff-INEGroup> ok Paul.
<WilliamX> going back to audio only
<paulds> so has REUNA
<Jeff-INEGroup> I was copying them becouse Sri ask for it Paul.  Read back.
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* paulds sighs
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<mikki> looks like another blerp in the router
<paulds> conspiracy theories anyone?
<paulds> :)
<Jeff-INEGroup> I aks again do you all want me to copy stuff here or not?
<SrikanthNarra> ben i am out again i connected thru reuna
<paulds> ben is gone
<WilliamX> ben lost his connection
<Jeff-INEGroup> I ask again do you all want me to copy stuff here or not?
<karls> ben got disconnected
<WilliamX> looks like the feed is offline
<WilliamX> http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/scripts/rammaker.asp?s=berkman&file=icann-live-082599-b1
<WilliamX> that is the audio only feed
<Jeff-INEGroup> karls, ROFLMAO!  Figures.
<mikki> *sigh*  they're using the senate bill for a definition of cybersquatting!
<paulds> is Berkman doing their audio-only via telephone?
<mikki> not controversial?!?!?  what a JOKE
<Jeff-INEGroup> mikki, Dam!  That is a shame!  :(
<Jeff-INEGroup> mikki, You got that right Mikki!  :(
<karls> audio only is by phone from Santiago to Cambridge
<paulds> voluntary arbitration.
<paulds> hrm
<mikki> it should ALL be voluntary
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<paulds> thanks karl.  xplains the tinniness. :)
<Jeff-INEGroup> karls, I can intercept in route and put here if you all want.  Yea or no?
<mikki> bret - their new definition of cybersquatting is the same as the one in the senate bill.  they feel this is "uncontroversial"
<karls> I don't know how to do that... not in cambridge
<Jeff-INEGroup> Hi BretFausett what's up today?? :)
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<BretFausett> Jeez. Who was that talking Sims? I'm audio only now. Can't get a video feed.
<Jeff-INEGroup> mikki, And they know they are dead wrong too!
<mikki> guess Jon isn't going to read my old queued comment
<Jeff-INEGroup> BretFausett, VIdeo's bleeping out allot!
<Jeff-INEGroup> mikki,  Maybe Kathy K will Mikki??
<SrikanthNarra> got audio
<mikki> I have shaky audio
<BretFausett> Who is speaking?
<mikki> I have sent substantive comments re: the ICANN policy and I seriously feel ignored
<Jeff-INEGroup> Adio great here now, video keeps poping in and out though...
<Jeff-INEGroup> mikki, Don't feel alone Mikki, so have we.
<mikki> dunno bret
<Jeff-INEGroup> BretFausett, I think it is Joe!
<Jeff-INEGroup> Yeah it is Joe Sims
<BretFausett> Agenda says "Louis Touton, ICANN." Who's Louis Touton?
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<Jeff-INEGroup> Louis Touton, another Jones & Day legal eagle.
<Rick> whois
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<Jeff-INEGroup> SusanCrawford, Welcom back!  >;)
<paulds> Is Josh still awake?
<Jeff-INEGroup> Hi Rick what's up today?? :)
<Rick> sorry, i just noticed that the creation date on the whois.crsnic.net server is gone. when did this change?
<Rick> Louis Touton is the main legal interface for ICANN <==> DOC
<Jeff-INEGroup> Don't know for sure RIck.  I notifced it was gone about a week ago I believe.
<paulds> ah.
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<Jeff-INEGroup> Rick, Yep, Louis Touton of Jones and Day I believe.
<Jeff-INEGroup> tommyg, you taking over for Ben here?
<Rick> ignore Jeff-INEGroup all
<Rick> oops, sorry about that, just add a slash infront of that last command ;-)
<WilliamX> already done rick  :)
<Jeff-INEGroup> Rick, Rick, you know how to use IRC commands?
<Rick> is anyone from NSI on this channel?
<Jeff-INEGroup> Mikki you still here?
<paulds> dont think so
<WilliamX> I recognize almost everyone here and no, none of them are from NSI
<SrikanthNarra> where is joop ?
<Jeff-INEGroup> No one has identifie themselves as from NSI yet anyway...
<Jeff-INEGroup> SrikanthNarra, I bet Joop is sleeping.  >;)  I would be too!
<mikki> ooops..I messed things up and submitted mine twice
<mikki> *sigh*
<Jeff-INEGroup> mikki, Submitted what twice?
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<mikki> sorry for posting my comment twice, jon
<paulds> Jon... Net back then?
<WilliamX> yes, get connected now  :)
<WilliamX> before it fills up
<Jeff-INEGroup> mikki, I liked your, "ispute resolution policy (Dispute Resolution Policy, 8/25/99 11:07:34 AM, #434)"
<mikki> is anyone getting the translation of this?  All Im getting is the spanish
<mlangston> What'd I miss?  I had to fight with the SCSI driver for a CD burner.
<paulds> yes translation is working on RV
<NickPatience> getting the translation
<WilliamX> mikki : go to the berkman video feed
<WilliamX> the translation works there
<WilliamX> http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/scripts/rammaker.asp?s=ip&ip=200.28.16.28&dir=live&file=icann-live-082599-2
<mikki> just one :-)
<Jeff-INEGroup> Mikki, Well yeah...  >;)
<SrikanthNarra> summarize of comemnts going on
<mlangston> heh!
<SrikanthNarra> dennis your comment is being read
<mikki> yay dennis
<Jeff-INEGroup> mlangston, Do you have a caugh or something?  Refrence to several comments of, "heh"...
<mlangston> yay both of you!
<mlangston> very well said.
<mikki> didn't read karl's or ellen's
<WilliamX> heh
<mikki> oh well
<DennisSchaefer>  thanks -- i can't hear:  anyone answr?
<paulds> no answers
<mlangston> Nope.
<mikki> no answers dennis...course not :-)
<JonZittrain> Ellen's was read earlier, I think
<WilliamX> No, they just read them in
<SrikanthNarra> they just read it dennis
<WilliamX> of course
<mikki> ah...ok jon
<SrikanthNarra> did not say anything
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<WilliamX> wb andy
<mlangston> Just another, "I heard it.  Next topic?" response from Esther.
<DennisSchaefer> aarrgh + 1/2
<JonZittrain> Karl has been at the virtual mike several times so far so took a back seat
<andyg> bloody flakey link!
<Jeff-INEGroup> That is typical Esther Dyson...
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<mikki> ah..ok
<edelman> back up.
<Jeff-INEGroup> Or should I say Esther Dykson...
<mikki> <---tired, jaded, and dealing with a rainy day ;-)
<DennisSchaefer> For Louise Woodward lovers only:  doesn't Esther look like Martha Coakley?
<mlangston> Mmmm...cybertribunal.
<karls> thanks Ben & berkman crew
<Jeff-INEGroup> mikki,  Where are you at mikki?  Hot and dry here now.
<SrikanthNarra> ben they did not read my comments
<paulds> kudos
<edelman> (after 5:00, cable and wireless, the isp we're using here, apparently has lots of home users logging on and competing with us for the bandwidth we had during the day...)
<SrikanthNarra> or even acknowledge them
<mlangston> Let's get Twomey to head it.  We could get a guillotine.
<Jeff-INEGroup> edelman, I offered you a sat link guy!  
<SrikanthNarra> some guy is talking of porsche
<Jeff-INEGroup> mlangston, ANd Twomey, could be it's first customer.
<SrikanthNarra> in reply to spanish question
<WilliamX> Who does ICANN think they are selecting arbitration FOR parties to a dispute?
<mlangston> cool.  CDT person.
<WilliamX> arbitration agencies should be selected by the parties to the dispute
<mikki> true
<mlangston> Amen.
<mikki> and the only one forced into the choice would be the domain name holder, not the challenger
<Jeff-INEGroup> I would dearly LUVVVV to pul the lever!  >;)
<mlangston> CDT Person:  "You're excluding people from the process who don't even know they should be concerned yet."
<paulds> go CDT
<mikki> "all the voices could be heard that are relevant"
<mikki> who decides who is "relevant?
<mlangston> ...as defined by ICANN, no doubt.
* Jeff-INEGroup slaps paulds with an old diaper full of extricated chile burritos!
<WilliamX> Mike Roberts, of course
<paulds> he implied the CEO
<NickPatience> ho wmany people are there in the room, do we know?
<mlangston> This whole thing is so self-fulfilling it should be eating its own tail by now.
<mikki> I sent substantive criticisms to the comments@icann.org page.  dunno if they will even be read
<mlangston> Depends....do lawyers qualify as "people"?
<SrikanthNarra> mine were not either
<mikki> this was email stuff, sri...way too long to be read here
<SrikanthNarra> here are 99% here with policy and last 1% is outlanding and
<mlangston> "We're 99% there"?!?
<SrikanthNarra> they will warp it up here
<Jeff-INEGroup> mikki, Sod did I and many others.  It lloks like they were not read.  DId you copy the ICANN BoD members Mikki?
<mikki> "in time to be adopted and on the web 30/45 days?!??!"
<SrikanthNarra> in time for it to be adopted in 30 to 35 days
<mikki> without individual or non commercial representation
<SrikanthNarra> yep
<SrikanthNarra> thats the 1% of pending work
<Jeff-INEGroup> Yep mikki!
<mikki> we don't NEED this damn thing at all. *sigh*
<WilliamX> shotgun democracy
<mlangston> They're 99% there, as regards getting it all ramrodded through without input from the people they're excluding.
<DennisSchaefer> How can they do such a thing?  Isn't Bliley watching?
<mikki> better to be clear than to be FAIR?
<mikki> what is she talking about?
<SrikanthNarra> nope
<paulds> ???
<Jeff-INEGroup> Mikki, I couldn't agree more!  Dam shame.  Time to put in a call to my legal eagle I guess.
<SrikanthNarra> open comment period
<mlangston> No, it's best to be clear AND fair.  Unless you'd rather be CLEARLY UNFAIR!
<SrikanthNarra> 10 mins left
<paulds> wasn't aware that clearness and fairness excluded each other...
<WilliamX> so it doesn't matter if its fair
<Jeff-INEGroup> mlangston,  Good point mark!
<Jeff-INEGroup> paulds, They don't under normal reasonable circumstances, but ICANN is obviously not normal.
<NickPatience> Jonathan or andyg, could you give us a rough estimate of turnout?
<Jeff-INEGroup> My guy tells me it around 200 total.
<andyg> having trouble keeping my eyes open
<JonZittrain> Nick-> Around 125, I'd say
<mikki> I am absolutely outraged
<NickPatience> thanks
<mikki> I can't believe she said that
<Jeff-INEGroup> mikki, Yeah me too Mikki...
<edelman> i would've said more like 200
<mlangston> If it's our organization, get your hands off it and respect our wishes!
<andyg> she's said some pretty stupid things today
<JonZittrain> Neither of us is the Nat'l Park Service, I guess.
<mlangston> *today*?
<mikki> If you can't read my last comment, Jon, could you please see that Esther sees it?  
<mlangston> Mine as well.
<andyg> sorry mark, wasn't thinking!
<mlangston> Andy: :)
<mikki> gotta steamroll WIPO through, but who cares about membership
<Jeff-INEGroup> mlangston, Another good point mark!
<Jeff-INEGroup> andyg, Who, Esther?
<Jeff-INEGroup>  Esther, is the master at stupid comments on this ICANN BoD.
<mlangston> Heh!
<Jeff-INEGroup> mikki, Yep, that sounds like Esther!
<Jeff-INEGroup> It is time to get nasty again I see.  <Sigh>
<mlangston> Awwww....Esther ignores Amadeu, and Amadeu throws a freaking temper-tantrum!
<mlangston> In public, on record.
<paulds> haw
<SrikanthNarra> ..lol..
<SrikanthNarra> should be difficult to record that one
* mikki throws a virtual temper tantrum, but isn't as big as amadeau :-)
<Jeff-INEGroup> ROFLMAO!  WellAmadeu, is an ass anyway!
<mlangston> Absolutely amazing.  That man has spoken almost as much as the people on stage.
<SrikanthNarra> says time constraints only enforced on him
<mlangston> And he has the cajones to COMPLAIN that he can't say what he wants to right now?
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<mikki> well, they were enforced on Karl too, so amadeu should feel honored :-)
<Jeff-INEGroup> Poor baby!  Ahhhhhh!  (Sarcasim intended)
<mlangston> Hm.  Maybe he's feeling a bit excluded.  Perhaps a bit ignored.  Must sting. :)
<mikki> LOL mark
<DennisSchaefer> Jon:  personal bias;  I hate speaking English in an Hispanic country.  If I submit a question in SPanish, is that a problem for you?
<SrikanthNarra> is squatter and acuser same country - arbitration in same country
<SrikanthNarra> two on line comments and ameadue and someone and thats it
<SrikanthNarra> my comment being read
<WilliamX> that was a lot of words to actually say nothing at all
<mlangston> Esther will be giving Amadeu, and I quote "his wish -- the last word."
<Jeff-INEGroup> SrikanthNarra,  I don't like the term "squatter" or "cybersquatter"  it is improper.
<SrikanthNarra> mikki comments being read
<SrikanthNarra> i know
<SrikanthNarra> i agree
<mikki> excellent!
<SrikanthNarra> esther is replying mikki
<SrikanthNarra> soemthing about band
<mikki> esther is backpeddaling
<paulds> good mikki
<SrikanthNarra> eating words
<SrikanthNarra> amadeau has answers to some questions
<SrikanthNarra> non com
<edelman> 100 online participants total today...
<SrikanthNarra> he will send esther email for her to read tonite
<mikki> excellent, ben!
<mlangston> Jeez.  He's bringing up stuff from this morning that he didn't get to say then.
<JonZittrain> Amazing.  Folks--please do feel free to submit feedback to IFWP or however on how this went, what you liked, what could be improved, etc.
<SrikanthNarra> tanturm
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<mikki> it's the way Amadeu always does this
<SrikanthNarra> most important thing not discussed yet
<SrikanthNarra> he has questions
<JonZittrain> I found the run-up conversation about remote participation on IFWP very useful in preparing for today.
<mikki> Jon and Ben, thanks for making sure things went as well as they did
<WilliamX> Jon, Ben, and the rest of the staff, this has been the best effort yet
<FrancoisMenard> sorrym network went dead ... did anybody answer my question ?
<SrikanthNarra> something with NSI and comment etc
<mlangston> Yeah:  Why Amadeu gets to dominate these proceedings.
<WilliamX> having you in here to discuss things, keep us informed, etc has been MOST helpful
<SrikanthNarra> because he will put on a hat
<SrikanthNarra> funny hat
<NickPatience> Thanks Ben, Jon & all. Great work
<mlangston> I again point out:  This entire meeting to date has been dominated by the same people who dominate things online.  This has provided no additional benefit other than a publicity stunt and exclusion by ICANN.
<SrikanthNarra> Bless you Ben, Jon and all
<JonZittrain> Yes, this chat room has been very helpful to us, too.
<mlangston> Thanks incredibly much, Ben.
<karls> Thanks Ben, Jon, and John
<mikki> yes, without the chat room, you wouldn't have known it was raining in DC....LL
<Jeff-INEGroup> Well ben, maybe next time you guys will send out a advance team so that we can have uninterupterd audio and video
<JonZittrain> Ben-> Is there a window for remote participation at any time tomorrow?
<andyg> We should hold the next ICANN meeting on IRC in Vovember instead of LA !
<mlangston> This is absolutely necesssary for those of us who can't afford to be there in person.
<paulds> agreed, very helpful
<JonZittrain> Sorry about the Net, folks; it's the one thing wholly out of our control.
<mlangston> ...and the online comments thing has gone better than I feared. 
<mikki> understood, Jon
<DennisSchaefer> Thanks Jon,  sent my comment anyway out of anger. Ignore it.
<mikki> mark - that would certainly cut down on expense :-)
<WilliamX> minor problems, Jon, the audio phone feeds were a great backup
<Jeff-INEGroup> It is absolutely necessary if ICANN is to have any changce of even having an inkling of being legitimate!  Sheeesh!  
<FrancoisMenard> who is speaking ?
<mlangston> Joe Sims.
<BretFausett> Joe Sims
<mikki> "the objective on ICANN's part, is to pay me, I mean to move on"
<FrancoisMenard> of ?
<mlangston> LAUGH!
<Jeff-INEGroup> And frankly I find this not very good Ben...
<mikki> amadeu AGAIN?  sheesh
<mlangston> The objective is to get INCANN into the black.  They owe me millions.
<mikki> I hope there is no food in there, else there will be a food fight
<mlangston> I don't believe it.
* paulds throws food at mikki.
<SrikanthNarra> yep he is back
<mlangston> What is this, the Amadeu Memorial Bully Pulpit?!?  SHUT THAT MAN UP!!!
<Jeff-INEGroup> Ohhh, I will get my time in terms of $$ from ICANN one way or another.
<mikki> ah, the wonders of virtual food fights
<SrikanthNarra> claps now
<WilliamX> good points he made about internic.net though
<SrikanthNarra> some comments on NSI and all typed
<WilliamX> that should be the registry website, not nsiregistry.com
<mlangston> No matter what his ideas, he should not be allowed to speak that damned often.
<paulds> he makes some good points, but GEEZ....
<WilliamX> oh I know, believe me  :)
<mikki> is this the NSI bashing session? :-)
<SrikanthNarra> comments about NSI now ?
<WilliamX> we all know his propensity for dominating discussion  :)
<mikki> can we do the ICANN bashing session next? ;-)
<paulds> bashing NSI is one thing most folks can agree on. :)
<Jeff-INEGroup> Agreed!!  Amandau makes a very few good points.  But he get's way too carried away.
<WilliamX> anti-NSI is the easy position
<mlangston> "Is it about NSI?  If not, wait.  We're not done having fun at their expense yet."
<andyg> The NSI bashing has begun.
<mlangston> I'm now taking bets on whether Amadeu will speak yet again before they adjourn.
<andyg> I'll have a hawaiian pizza please
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* SrikanthNarra bounces around the channel.
<Jeff-INEGroup> Ok I guess esther must have changed into here BSDM ourfit now I suppose.
<DennisSchaefer> welcome back, mason
<mlangston> I like my pizza like I like my net management:  Served on a silver platter supported by the staked heads of these buffoons.
<SrikanthNarra> i bet he will before next 5 mins
<mason> hey jeff-inegroup - welcome aboard
<SrikanthNarra> yep not the meet is finally official
<Jeff-INEGroup> mason, thanks!  You too guy!  Where you been?
<SrikanthNarra> now
<mason> we.ve been watching
<Jeff-INEGroup> Ok I guess esther must have changed into here BSDM outfit now I suppose.
<BretFausett> This guy makes sense.
<mlangston> A helluva lot of sense.
<Jeff-INEGroup> Yep!  Sure does
<karls> who is he?
<DennisSchaefer> Esther is laughing,,, that must by why
<mlangston> I just want to know how many different people must say this in how many different ways before it finally sinks in!
<paulds> some professional election observer
<mlangston> ...with significant experience in processes like these.
<mlangston> "...and we'll ignore them anyway."
<WilliamX> Mikki, which part of the DOC uses the domain ita.doc.gov ?
<WilliamX> do you have any idea?
<andyg> we need that guy to appear before the senate committee
<anonymous> are there people here who are actually sitting in the room?
<Jeff-INEGroup> I am not going to tell, but I know this guy pretty well...
<mlangston> Int'l Trade Assoc.?
<mikki> I'm not sure, william
* WilliamX goes and loads up a web browser
<SrikanthNarra> good point ramesh
<mlangston> Information Tech.?
<WilliamX> very close mark  :)
<mikki> this is a person with a good point speaking now
<WilliamX> International trade administration
<SrikanthNarra> done
<WilliamX> needed to clarify someones position who responded to an email
<mikki> sheesh, Esther, ICANN has no mandate from anyone to make international law!
<mlangston> omigod.  They might finish without Amadeu speaking again!
<SrikanthNarra> he said he was afraid that trademark interests with more money will get case law in there favor
<SrikanthNarra> simplely because the domain owner will not fight hard enough or can not effort good lawyers
<mlangston> dear ghod.  Now he's got Raul speaking for him!
* SrikanthNarra Laughs-Out-Loud!!
<Jeff-INEGroup> SrikanthNarra,  Yes they all can, if they know how to go about it!
<SrikanthNarra> are we online tommorow ?
<SrikanthNarra> whats the agenda
<edelman> yes, webcast tomorow.
<andyg> just as an aside, can all the IDNO'ers put IDNO in their "where from" field when they log in to the remote participation form ???
<mlangston> I hope so.
<SrikanthNarra> thanks ben
<SrikanthNarra> i second it !
<karls> when tomorrow? morning - afternoon
<edelman> no remote participation via the realtime comment submission system
<mlangston> Amadeu, SHUT UP!!!
<mikki> temper tantrum time from amadeu again
<mlangston> He's arguing with Esther!
<andyg> I'm off. See you on email later tonite!
<mlangston> She's trying to end the damned meeting, and he's arguing with her!
<SrikanthNarra> backpatting going on
<Jeff-INEGroup> Yeah try to get the audio video feed working better by tomarrow will ya ben.
<andyg> It's the Y2K discussion now - I'm off for a sleep!
<WilliamX> ok, andy
<mikki> and I'm out of here too..Y2K can go on without me
<edelman> there will be no chat tomorrow either.  this is a meeting for observation only, and just as physical participants won't be talking amongst themselves, neither will online participants, at least not in an official forum.
<mlangston> bye andy
<WilliamX> get some rest
<SrikanthNarra> thank Ben damn it !
<andyg> seeya guys!
<mikki> thanks ben and jon
<SrikanthNarra> i am off too..
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<mlangston> will we have the IRC server ben?
<SrikanthNarra> bye folks
<mlangston> And the RV feed?
<SrikanthNarra> what time tommorow ?
<paulds> But we can join #icann-santiago on EFnet if we want.
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<paulds> Just use whatever server you want
<WilliamX> this server should still be up, correct?
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<SrikanthNarra> wx did you hear from joop ?
<Jeff-INEGroup> paulds, Except that won't work paul!  :(
<SrikanthNarra> before i leave
<karls> another break?
<Jeff-INEGroup> Sri, you leaving now??
<mlangston> Y2k meeting next.
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<mlangston> and everyone's leaving.
<SrikanthNarra> about to jeff
<SrikanthNarra> trying to see if i can get update on joop
<karls> is there a break inbetween? or are people just not interested?
<Jeff-INEGroup> Y2k?  God dam, don't they have that undercontrol by now!??
<SrikanthNarra> ..lol...
<paulds> no break
<WilliamX> no, I closed the feed
<Jeff-INEGroup> ok Sri.  >;)
<WilliamX> what happened sri?
<mlangston> Ben, is there no feed for the Y2k stuff?
<SrikanthNarra> y2k session is starting its not a break
<JoshElliott> The Y2K session is informational - directed primarily towards the CCTLD managers
<SrikanthNarra> thats all that was said wx
* paulds shrugs.
<paulds> see y'all.
<DennisSchaefer> Well  I'll step out for a while to check email.
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<WilliamX> what was said, sri, I missed it?
<WilliamX> nevermind
<SrikanthNarra> nothing is said yet wx
<WilliamX> got it now  :)
<Jeff-INEGroup> Well dam!  If the ccTLD boys and girls don't have their stuff together on y2k by now they are a bunch of dip shits!
<SrikanthNarra> did u hear from joop today ?
<mlangston> well, that was fun.
<WilliamX> no
<WilliamX> not at all
<mlangston> Did anyone?
<SrikanthNarra> k
<WilliamX> I have exchanged emails with andy
<JoshElliott> Please don't use profanity
<mlangston> I'd ask Andy, but he logged out.
<SrikanthNarra> am not too sure
<Jeff-INEGroup> mlangston,  Like a broken arm is fun!
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<SrikanthNarra> mark and others if anyone can get an update from joop on ground pls email us all
<Jeff-INEGroup> JoshElliott,  ohhh I am sorry josh, I forgot about you delicate sensibilities!  :(
<JoshElliott> very delicate
<WilliamX> ok, unlike yesterday, I can't stay around and chat, as it is taking this much time will mean I have to work till at least 8pm tonight to catch up
<mlangston> ignore jeff-inegroup -
<WilliamX> so I'm going to have to go
<SrikanthNarra> same here wx
<SrikanthNarra> bye folks
<mlangston> bye!
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<Jeff-INEGroup> JoshElliott,  Yes I am sure they are!  Now go and get your cookies and milk and take a little nappy pooh!  >;0  There is a good boy!
<WilliamX> Josh : no one will complain about you ignoring Jeff     :)
<WilliamX> or about kicking him out for that matter
<WilliamX> in any event, I really do have to go
<mlangston> wow.  He's still here.
<mlangston> night William.
<WilliamX> thanks again to the berkman staff, This effort has been excellent
<mlangston> Ditto!
<Jeff-INEGroup> And William, don't forget to take that medication...
<JoshElliott> Ben, is Andrew around?
<WilliamX> If I was there, the drinks would be on me  :)
<mlangston> I'm off as well.  Bye everyone.
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<WilliamX> bye everyone
<karls> bye
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<Jeff-INEGroup> hasta lavista!
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<JoshElliott> So, who is sticking around?
<karls> I'll be here for a little while...
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<JoshElliott> What should we discuss?  Politics, wheather, sports?
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<karls> up to you
<JoshElliott> I am just here to clarify facts about ICANN and answer some questions if there are any
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<JoshElliott> I am out of here
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<karls> Jon - what's happening there?
<rikt_> I can get in on real audio...
<karls> rikt - can you hear anything?
<JonZittrain> oops, just tuned in
<JonZittrain> it's a Y2K meeting
<JonZittrain> Jun Murai speaking.
<tgraham> gnite.
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<JonZittrain> Goodnight, T!
<karls> What's going on tomorrow?  Will there be webcasting?
<rikt_> karls: nope, I don't even connect
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<karls> JZ - the tech was wonderful, thank everyone down there for me, and have a good night...
<karls> Oh, and say hi to Ben and JW for me...
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