| Nickname - Message |
|---|
| <SivanG> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:41) Hello everyone. Not too much excitement here quite yet. |
| <SivanG> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:44) How did you all find out about this debate? |
| <JudieM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:45) email from one of bob hettinga's mailing lists |
| <AimeeF> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:46) the Filter |
| <WilliamC> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:47) Email at Stanford Law School |
| <SivanG> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:47) Are you a student at Stanford? |
| <WilliamC> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:48) An emeritus Professor |
| <SivanG> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:49) So you are here to watch your colleague. |
| <WilliamC> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:49) Yes -- and we are pleased to have him at Stanford. |
| <SivanG> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:50) We are disappointed to have lost him! |
| <WilliamC> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:50) ... and we lost Janet Halley to HLS |
| <SivanG> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:51) That's true... |
| <SivanG> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:52) To all, it would be great if you could write a little about yourselves in the box in the lower left hand corner. |
| <CAROLAV> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:52) does anyone know how long it'll take this debate to start? |
| <BrianM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:53) Hi, I'm a member of Harry Lewis' E-Law Course at NYU. |
| <SivanG> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:53) Lessig and Valenti are both here so it shouldn't be too long before we begin. |
| <JudieM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:54) hi i am a doctoral student in info studies at florida state working on a dynamic model of rights management. |
| <JimO> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:54) Hi. I am an attorney who has practiced in Law & Tech for over 20 years |
| <CAROLAV> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:54) Thanks. I am an LLM student at Boalt and student of Pamela Samuelson in her cyberlaw class |
| <PhilB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:54) hi, I'm a musician and 3L at Suffolk |
| <AnthonyL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:55) Hello I am an undergraduate at Harvard College. Are Lessig and Valenti doing this via satellite or are they actually going to be in Ames? |
| <BrianM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:55) Hey Phil, I went to Suffolk! |
| <RaymondR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:55) Hello, I am a EE wondering where this IP stuff is going |
| <SivanG> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:55) Lessig and Valenti are debating in Ames, live, in front of an audience of at least 200 people. |
| <IvyA> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:56) Hi, I'm a librarian at Harvard who negotiates licenses for electronic content |
| <Dave> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:56) A ringer here - Dave Burstein, editor, DSL Prime - who assures all comments are off the record |
| <CAROLAV> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:56) is the text of the debate going to be available afterwards? |
| <AnthonyL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:56) Well, I should get myself over to Ames. No sense in sitting here watching this tiny picture |
| <SivanG> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:56) It's standing room only in Ames! |
| <AnthonyL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:57) Geez. Maybe I have the best seat after all |
| <JimO> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:57) It surprises me that there are only 34 people online |
| <SivanG> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:57) The text will not be available after but there will be a video archive. |
| <AnthonyL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:57) There are a bunch of these little rooms of 35 people |
| <CAROLAV> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:58) great! so I can watch it later in case I have to check on my son? |
| <SivanG> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:58) There are three, soon to be four different chat rooms. |
| <JudieM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:58) so ivan are you are moderator? |
| <AnthonyL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:58) How do you know so much? |
| <SuzieW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:58) I asked my class to join the discussion, but I don't know who is here. Is anyone from Tucson? |
| <SivanG> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:58) Yes, I'm the moderator. |
| <ScottE> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:59) Any suggestions about what to do if you cannot hear the broadcast? |
| <MZ> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:59) I hear the broadcast but the words are blurring.... |
| <JeffH> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:00) reverb ... dammit! |
| <JeffH> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:00) so much for remote learning |
| <TarynF> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:00) Hello |
| <SivanG> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:00) if you're having technical difficulties, you can email webcasthelp@cyber.law.harvard.edu |
| <JeffH> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:01) sivan: thanks |
| <BrianM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:01) Glad to be here. |
| <DebbieH> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:01) Ivan are you in the Aimes center? |
| <BenEd> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:01) Or choose the Online Real-TIme Assistance Area link on the front page. |
| <BenEd> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:01) (that's http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/gropchat) |
| <SivanG> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:01) I am in Ames watching the debate live |
| <BrianM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:01) Vote Bush. |
| <DebbieH> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:02) Ames...sorry. Ok. thanks! |
| <BrianM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:02) Thanks to Al Gore for giving us the Internet technology to do this! |
| <JackV> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:05) so valenti is a clown - a.k.a. entertainer - fits the role |
| <SivanG> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:06) he's very engaging |
| <HanWooP> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:06) he is.. |
| <JeffH> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:06) it's a great mistake to underestimate Valenti |
| <SivanG> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:06) do you speak from experience? |
| <RaymondR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:07) JeffH, LOL |
| <JeffH> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:07) the clown is his trademarked deceptive maneuver |
| <JackV> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:07) i don't under estimate him at all - he is a true clown - and we all know clowns always have the advantage |
| <JeffH> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:07) yessir |
| <RaymondR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:07) Who was the senator in charge of the Watergate Impeachment hearings? |
| <SuzieW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:08) Where did the term "down" come from? I know what it means, but I don't know the history. |
| <RaymondR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:08) A good old boy....:O: |
| <RaymondR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:08) LOL |
| <craigN> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:10) I'm having a bad time getting connected.... arghhhh... |
| <SivanG> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:11) if you're having trouble seeing the video, go to http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/groupchat/manual |
| <MZ> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:12) Can somebody explain what is the speaker's background. Maybe it will help to understand. I have difficulties subscribing to his views. |
| <JackV> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:12) he's learning he has fewer answers every day for the internet |
| <TarynF> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:12) How ironic that Valenti thinks that television is one of the greatest three inventions of all time? |
| <PrivateC> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:12) MZ, he is the president of the MPAA, Hollywod in other words |
| <TarynF> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:12) ;) |
| <BrianM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:12) Harvard MBA; LBJ's Cabinet; Highly decorated WWI Vet; etc... |
| <MZ> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:13) Private: what does that mean? |
| <SivanG> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:13) he is president of the Motion Picture Association of America and views file copying as "pirating" |
| <PrivateC> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:13) MZ, he is the spokesperson for the Hollywood studios |
| <MZ> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:13) O.K., Ok., it's getting clearer. |
| <SivanG> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:13) for his bio, click on the link on the bottom right of your screen |
| <JackV> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:13) plans are in the works - i.e. more opportunities to crack code. |
| <JackV> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:15) lessig mumbles - very bad presentation - needs more criper oration |
| <dmienM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:15) this is like being huddled around a crystal radio must have been in the 1920s |
| <IvyA> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:15) Lessig is very difficult to hear - can he be asked to speak into the mike more directly? (if that's the problem...) |
| <JackV> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:15) maybe his mike is off |
| <SuzieW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:15) Lessig's mice is more muffled than Valeniti's |
| <SivanG> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:15) mike is on and I think we're stuck with the sound as is |
| <MZ> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:15) Too bad, we almost can't hear anything |
| <SuzieW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:15) Can you ask him to move the mike?? |
| <SivanG> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:16) I'll tell the tech people |
| <craigN> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:16) It's funny I can hear but I can't see... try the audio only connection... it's pretty clear |
| <JackV> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:16) time to go it's too much mumble. |
| <BrianM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:17) Lessig's got marbles in his mouth |
| <IvyA> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:17) how do you select audio only? |
| <AimeeF> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:17) will this broadcast be archived so I can visit from a serious pipeline? |
| <SuzieW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:17) Lessig speaks very clearly; I've heard him before. It's the mike. |
| <SivanG> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:17) there will be a video archive |
| <martaM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:17) john perry barlow had a similar view in this month's iissue of wired |
| <craigN> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:17) goto.. http:// cyber.law.harvard.edu/groupchat/manual |
| <AaronC> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:18) working again...8) |
| <DavidM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:18) You'll probably be able to get in on Napster |
| <SuzieW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:18) But Barlow's not a lawyer; Lessig's views are based on his knowledge of law. |
| <martaM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:18) david bois is in there too |
| <craigN> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:18) it's for slower connections but I got tired of waiting on video |
| <DebbieH> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:19) Ivan, you mentioned that the video will be archived. Will you be emailing registrants with the location of the archive? |
| <RNesson> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:20) We are working on sound levels here. If you are having a hard time hearing, hang in there for a minute. |
| <BenEd> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:20) Yes, an email will be sent later tonight (or tomorrow at the latest) to all registrants re where to get archives. |
| <HamishM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:20) Lessig sounds like we are hearing him on another mike... |
| <SuzieW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:20) Yeah, I agree with HamishM. |
| <BenEd> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:20) The acoustics in this room are unfortunately quite poor. I'll see about some cleanup in post-production for the archives. |
| <DebbieH> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:21) Thanks Ben. Missed alot due to the sound... |
| <HamishM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:21) whoo, something happened there... |
| <RaymondR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:21) The other guy came through very clear |
| <BenEd> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:21) Better? |
| <WilliamC> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:21) Can the volume be turned up? |
| <HamishM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:21) briefly, there was a burst, then back to the marbles... |
| <BenEd> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:21) Our encoders reflect that encoding levels are where they should be. |
| <JeffH> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:22) Sivan: will there be a text transcript? |
| <DebbieH> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:22) no. Lessig is still muffled...but at times it comes in ok... |
| <SivanG> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:22) no text transcript - sorry |
| <WilliamC> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:22) The truth has always been muffled at HLS |
| <SuzieW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:22) ooh. Good. |
| <WilliamC> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:22) That's better! |
| <GeraldR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:22) Much better |
| <GeraldR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:22) Thanks |
| <craigN> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:23) is this lessig? |
| <HamishM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:23) louder, but not clearer, but better... |
| <HamishM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:23) yup |
| <martaM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:23) it is not the volume, it sounds like the bass level |
| <DebbieH> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:23) ah!!! there we go...bass is it... |
| <marlaD> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:23) yes, if you turn your bass down on your speaker, the sound is better |
| <craigN> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:24) but I wish they'd be a little softer with those faders.... I swear my speakers about blue up |
| <craigN> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:24) blew |
| <MZ> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:24) What if you don't have bass in your speakers? |
| <WhitneyB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:24) Anyone from Pho here? |
| <JeffH> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:24) okay |
| <craigN> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:25) I took bass out of all mine... so don't worry about it |
| <RaymondR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:25) Generically the higher frequencies are more intelligble. |
| <HamishM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:26) thieves! |
| <AaronC> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:26) I set my 1-bit BASH DAC EQ to "Clear" |
| <SivanG> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:26) tech people here are working to get rid of the bass on the mixer |
| <MZ> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:27) thanks |
| <AaronC> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:27) excellent |
| <DebbieH> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:28) it's getting much better |
| <dmienM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:28) can we get valenti and lessig to swap mikes? |
| <SuzieW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:28) yeah, good idea! I'd rather her lessig. |
| <AimeeF> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:28) I'll be back for the archive on a fat pipe, mods - you hang in there! |
| <DebbieH> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:29) valenti comes through great... |
| <SivanG> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:29) i think they're doing what they can... |
| <dmienM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:29) that hollywood for you ! |
| <AustinP> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:29) the sound is totally bassy |
| <HamishM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:30) Long paragraph Lawrence... |
| <SuzieW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:30) yeah. It's easy to tell who's the lawyer in this debate. |
| <JeffH> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:30) and who knows how to speak for soundbite |
| <HamishM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:31) hope his memory is better than it was during the deposition |
| <SuzieW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:32) he is funny, though, gets people to think he's not a bad guy. |
| <SuzieW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:32) hee hee hee |
| <marlaD> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:32) to ask for a soundbite of a complex issue is a disappointing request |
| <dmienM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:32) oh no - now hes reading salon - or is it wired - to us? |
| <dmienM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:32) wonder if he had permission |
| <SuzieW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:33) i'm rebuffering, anyone else having this problem? |
| <HamishM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:33) oh dear, is it the same 2" square on a PC monitor? |
| <dmienM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:33) yes |
| <HamishM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:33) Valenti has no confidence in his product |
| <RaymondR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:34) he is putting the obligation on the user not the producer, that is wrong. |
| <PrivateC> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:34) So because European corps. got greedy, U.S. corps should do the same? |
| <HamishM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:34) "They started it..." |
| <RaymondR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:34) If I lay $50M on the sidewalk and it isn't there tomorrow, who is at fault |
| <PrivateC> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:35) Valenti is appealing to emotions, not logic. Sign of a man who has a weak argument. |
| <mikeF> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:35) What if you are not allowed to lock up the $50M per Lessig's suggestion? |
| <SuzieW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:35) hey, he can afford it. |
| <SivanG> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:35) Rebuffering problems, go to cyber.law.harvard.edu/groupchat/manual and try a lower bandwidth connection |
| <SuzieW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:35) i reloaded and it was fine. who knows what happened. |
| <dmienM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:36) is 34K the fastest connection? |
| <RaymondR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:36) dmianM- 80K here |
| <HamishM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:36) Customers Jack |
| <PrivateC> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:36) Valenti is creating a strawman argument. Copyright shouldn't be eliminated, but neither should it be abused the way the corps. are abusing it. |
| <SuzieW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:36) does he really think peole won't go to movies, or buy CDs??? |
| <HamishM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:37) yeah, he really does, despite the RIAA revenue evidence... |
| <HamishM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:37) because they work Jack... |
| <HamishM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:37) and copyright the arguments to the court Jack? |
| <RaymondR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:37) Nobody has a _right_ to make money... even hollywood producers |
| <PrivateC> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:37) He used identical arguments about VCRs 20 years ago. Evidently he didn't learn. |
| <WhitneyB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:37) Talented lawyers don't own their arguments |
| <TarynF> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:37) Jack, keepin' it simple... |
| <HamishM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:37) not yet... |
| <SuzieW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:38) what a quote! |
| <WhitneyB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:38) Although LA County thinks it owns their jury instructions, so far |
| <SuzieW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:38) lessig sounds great now. |
| <EvilD> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:39) how can i adjust the treble on this. :) |
| <TarynF> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:39) What do people think of Valenti's point re: other countries' copyright policies? If we adopt Lessig's proposal, would we really suffer in the long run in comparison to other countries with greater copyright protection? |
| <SivanG> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:39) for tech questions type/join #techhelp into the chat window |
| <HamishM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:39) viz the European argument, this must be the first time I have heard the US laud their rigidity |
| <PrivateC> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:39) TarynF, no I don't think *we* would, but Disney might. |
| <dmienM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:39) the US is powerfull enoigh to strongarm partity policies in other countries |
| <PrivateC> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:40) In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the U.S. strongarmed Europe to pass those laws, and now uses that to justify changing U.S. laws. |
| <HamishM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:40) US leads Europe, arguably due to the speed of change, copyright at life+70years is a brake on innovation... |
| <DanB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:40) Note that Valenti made no comparisons to Asian countries. |
| <FrederickW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:40) Indeed Europe is eroding droit d'auteur following the US |
| <mikeF> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:40) It's not a brake on innovation. It preserves the incentive to innovate. |
| <dmienM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:40) no asian copyrihgt tradition |
| <HamishM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:41) but if you can't use anything that has been used before, like The Hunchback, what is possible? |
| <TarynF> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:41) I don't really know that I am convinced by the argument, I was just curious how other people would respond to it... |
| <EvilD> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:41) hahahaha |
| <martaM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:41) that is just silly |
| <EvilD> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:41) no you sure dont. :) |
| <SivanG> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:42) an argument could be made that the brake in innovation happens because you can't improve on copyrighted material if it's considered a derivative |
| <JimO> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:42) the overriding reason is that the lobbyists were successful |
| <RaymondR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:42) perhaps we need some new concepts: Patent, copyright, ....... ? |
| <HamishM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:42) thanks sivang, that's better expressed, no violation of copyright there... |
| <TarynF> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:42) Are people in supoprt of Lessig's idea because of a sense that copyright owners are making too much money? Are the monopolies too strong? |
| <JohnB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:43) Its just my opinion, but I think the copyright laws are much like the patent laws. Right now, in the era of the internet, a 10 year patent is way to long. Both the US patent and copyright laws need to be amended |
| <GraceY> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:43) It is most likely. |
| <EvilD> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:43) the monopolies are absolute. |
| <GeorgeC> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:43) why isn't a retrospective expansion of term a `reverse taking' - giving away a public asset? |
| <BrigitteM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:43) Hi |
| <HamishM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:43) Too much money, too much of a threat to other freedoms, by the time we are survielled enough to support Jack's business model, you'll have cops in every room.... |
| <arianneD> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:43) Taryn - it's not about corporations making money |
| <TarynF> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:43) good point Sivan ;) |
| <HamishM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:43) agree on similarity of copyright and patent... |
| <RaymondR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:43) TarynF: My objection is that are prosecuting people who stop and pick up money off the sidewalk |
| <SuzieW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:44) patents and copyrights are very different. the criteria are not the same at all, though I would argue that patents are more damaging than copyrights |
| <JimO> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:44) nasty.. |
| <TarynF> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:44) What do you think it's about then? |
| <HamishM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:44) you are obliged, in my country, to return found money, and I agree with that... |
| <TarynF> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:44) I am not sure I understand Raymond- |
| <IraF> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:44) Copyrights shouldn't last any longer than patents. Why should a creative work be protected longer than a creative idea? Anybody have any thoughts? |
| <katieW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:44) It's not that they're making too much money, it's that they want to control all access to relevant culture material. They love taking advantage of technology until they can't control it. |
| <HamishM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:44) they are both state mandated control of content... |
| <RaymondR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:44) Suzie: Then perhaps we need another category? |
| <arianneD> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:44) copyright was created to ensure continued creativity in society |
| <arianneD> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:44) THAT IS ALL |
| <HamishM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:44) "humble folks," .. puke |
| <TarynF> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:44) And you don't think there is an economic reason behind that? |
| <BethB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:45) Can i just ask a question? |
| <arianneD> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:45) yes-- that authors can support their families |
| <mikeF> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:45) The economic reason is to compensate creators. |
| <HamishM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:45) oh, so there was no creativity before copyright? C'mon... |
| <SuzieW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:45) these "categories" were framed by our consitution, and then warped by legislation-- that is part of lessig's (and Barlow's) argument |
| <PrivateC> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:45) Copyright was originally designed to get works into the public domain, by giving writers enough financial motivation to make books, but not so long that it would never reach public domain. That balance has now been distorted. |
| <mikeF> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:45) There was no copyright before the printing press because it took too long to for the monks to copy books. |
| <MZ> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:45) Raymond, I agree with you. It's the only way to go now, to charge the consumer with responsiblity. |
| <SivanG> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:45) Beth, feel free to ask questions |
| <TarynF> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:45) I think you are right, Private |
| <HamishM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:45) so copyright is a response to technology... well the technology has changed, move on... |
| <PrivateC> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:46) Copyright is NOT primarily designed to make money for the creator. |
| <SuzieW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:46) oooh. trade export suggests money for copyrights. Not what it's supposed to do!!! |
| <BethB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:46) Harrish how do you feel about the banning of Napster as a violation of the free speech of consumers? |
| <AaronC> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:46) Doesn't Mr. V realize that his industry has survived even with the advent of DivX CODECS and various other copy utils??????????????????? |
| <arianneD> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:46) there was creativity before copyright and there will still be creativity if copyright ends |
| <mikeF> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:46) Move on to what? Outright stealing? |
| <JimO> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:46) I agree PrivateC - its all about finding (and adjusting if necessary) the right balance |
| <TarynF> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:46) Have to sign off, y'all. Enjoy the rest of the debate! |
| <HamishM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:46) a new business model, umm, pre-pay? |
| <BrigitteM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:46) Hi, I'm a student from the Montreal University |
| <PrivateC> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:46) Yes, Jim, balance is the key, and what is happening is the laws are being distorted in favor of the corps. |
| <SuzieW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:46) pre-pay for what?? |
| <FrederickW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:46) Distributors benefit from retrospective copyright, not authors. |
| <EvilD> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:46) there will mediocre creativity because noone will be able to afford the level of <ahem> "Quality" billionaire record labels can create. |
| <HamishM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:46) content |
| <dmienM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:46) sureley the expiration of copyright gives more motivation to create new works |
| <AaronC> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:47) YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
| <AaronC> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:47) Yes I do...LOL |
| <AaronC> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:47) 8) |
| <BethB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:47) Private, let me ask you -do you feel that the banning of Napster is a violation of the free speech rights of consumers? |
| <PrivateC> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:47) Most books don't make money for their author beyond the first year or so. 14 or 28 years is plenty. |
| <SuzieW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:47) Yeah, money is NOT the object, but it was made that way. |
| <PrivateC> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:48) Beth, yes, I tend to think so. For instance, I only d/l songs I already have on CD. Where does that leave me if Napster is banned because some misuse it? |
| <WilliamW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:48) This is a debate at cross purposes: Valenti is seeking to protect those who broadcast to consumers; Lessig is seeking to defend the right of users to write, think, create |
| <SuzieW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:48) this is a fair use issue that lessig is arguing (i think) |
| <mikeF> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:48) Private C is wrong. Most publishing houses make their money to fund new books based upon their backlists, i.e, books written more than 14-28 years ago. |
| <AaronC> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:48) yes...I agree SuzieW |
| <MZ> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:49) Private, for sure, you are not serious. d/l only songs you already have? |
| <HamishM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:49) If a downloaded song or movie was identical to the product that is sold, I would think it was wrong... |
| <PrivateC> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:49) mikeF, I said *most* books don't make money for their authors after the first year. The publishing houses, on the ohter hand, get to aggregate those few best-sellers together and make money. |
| <HamishM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:49) but as a sample, or digital copy of something I own, then it doesn't strike me as adverse to anyone... |
| <BrianM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:49) I give Valenti credit...he has broken down the issue to its most basic core. |
| <PrivateC> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:49) MZ, I do sometimes d/l songs to sample, and then buy later, or in a few cases to hear something from my youth as nostalgia, something I could never find on the market. |
| <BethB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:50) Would anyone else be willing to answer me about whether banning Napster is a violation of the free speech of consumers? |
| <WhitneyB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:50) And ducked all the real questions |
| <JohnB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:50) it is. as long as there is a legal purpose for it. |
| <HamishM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:50) "Can't Control" |
| <AaronC> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:50) exactly |
| <DavidM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:50) How is downloading music files using Napster free speech? What speech is the user making? |
| <HamishM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:50) I fear copyright because the only way to continue to enforce it is to become a police state. |
| <JohnB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:51) it allows the little guy to get his music out. |
| <JohnB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:51) the one without a record contract |
| <MZ> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:51) Private, exactly! that is a legitimate use, as well as others because there are always be people buying CD, Nabster or not Nabster. |
| <SuzieW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:51) it's not free speech that is argued here, it's pirating ("stealing") that is the issue here. |
| <PrivateC> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:51) Of course, MZ, it really broadens the market for music. |
| <RaymondR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:51) BethB: Good question but there should also be a legal point for the pracitcality of the law. Unenforcable laws build disrespect |
| <PrivateC> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:51) It's more of a fair use issue. |
| <HamishM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:51) I think this subject is interesting because it is not simple, it's the confluence of a number of issues.... |
| <GeorgeC> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:52) Valenti wins this argument by identifying his people as laborars, while Lessig paints them as scheming finaaciers. |
| <HamishM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:52) Agreed RaymondR |
| <dmienM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:52) i wonder if napster was like a library - and guaranteed that each legitimate cpoy of music was listened to by only one person at a time - would that be legal - if there was no profit motive? |
| <AnthonyL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:52) I deleted Napster yesterday |
| <HamishM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:52) "the consent of the governed..." |
| <AaronC> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:52) Just for all of your information...you should check out the WIRED magazine for this month - described all of these issues quite nicely...8) |
| <PrivateC> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:52) dmeinM, that was MP3.com's argument, and it failed in court. |
| <JohnB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:52) so shutdown the internet because warez exists |
| <HamishM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:52) nice to have the choice eh AnthonyL |
| <Xn> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:52) people should be able to control how property they own is distributed..shutting shouldn't be shut down, but copyright owners should be able to prevent their property from being distributed using napster...unfortunately, this is pretty much technologically impossible |
| <dmienM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:53) private - but MP3.com was for profit |
| <RaymondR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:53) Hammish: Publis |
| <AnthonyL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:53) I guess--I can't afford to get in trouble for listening to music |
| <mikeF> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:53) Yes. Like the choice copyright tries to preserve for the creator of a work. |
| <PrivateC> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:53) Actually, I was thinking of MyMP3.com -- based on your own CD contents. |
| <RaymondR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:53) Xn: If you care encrypt it or watermark it!! |
| <Xn> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:53) whether or not the distribution is for profit or not is irrelevent |
| <dmienM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:54) Xn - is that true? |
| <JohnB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:54) if you watermark it, I bet it will last maybe an hour before someone finds a way to remove it |
| <HamishM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:54) if you think "moral right" to the work exists... |
| <yoM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:54) being that the webcast is overloaded is it very interesting? |
| <Xn> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:54) RaymondR: requires software to use the watermark |
| <BethB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:54) ok-so maybe you figured already but i am a journalism student--would any of you be willing to give me a direct quote about Napster as a first amendment issue? |
| <dmienM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:54) Xn - i would agree with the right of the copyright holder to profit from their material - but not the right to prevent economic cooperation between people |
| <HamishM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:54) copyright duration will be the time it takes to break the encryption |
| <AaronC> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:54) hehehehe |
| <DavidM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:55) The Napster case has nothing to do with the 1st Amendment |
| <RaymondR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:55) Xn: Yeap it's the producer responsibility... and then he can enter into a contract. |
| <Xn> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:55) dmienM: what do you mean, "not the right to prevent economic cooperation between people"? |
| <arianneD> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:55) Hamish -- I think i like the length of that copyright protection |
| <AnthonyL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:55) The entertainment industry needs to catch up with the times |
| <RaymondR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:55) Xn: Whereas, If I leave money ont he sidewalk I have abandoned it. |
| <dmienM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:55) Xn - sharing stuff they own amongst each other |
| <HamishM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:56) The point Jack is not paid to recognise, is that in order to do what he simply wants, will damage a plethora of other rights |
| <HamishM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:56) and those rights are more important than a convenient business plan. |
| <WhitneyB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:56) This would be a lot more fun if Jack would actually answer questions and follow the argument. His evasiveness is annoying |
| <HamishM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:56) it's his job |
| <Xn> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:56) RaymondR: if i want to only distribute my material using liquid audio or similiar, it's my decision..if i only want to distribute it on 8-tracks taped to pigeons, it's my right.. |
| <WhitneyB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:56) His job to spend FUD |
| <HamishM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:56) and he is doing it much more entertainingly than he did in the deposition with Glaubus(sp?) |
| <PrivateC> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:56) If he stuck to the points, he would lose the debate... |
| <WhitneyB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:57) Spread FUD, I mean |
| <RonM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:57) garbus |
| <RaymondR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:57) Xn: nope..... If you want to keep rights you should have to actively do it... |
| <AaronC> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:57) Jack knows the philisophical error of his reasoning - he avoids like a big furry weasel |
| <BrianM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:57) Valenti's a victim of Lessig's socratic method...poor Jack. |
| <Xn> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:57) dmienM: but you don't own it outright if you agree to a particular license when you get it |
| <RaymondR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:57) Close your dooor. |
| <HamishM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:57) yeah, right Jack |
| <HamishM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:58) then you'll go buy some new laws |
| <BethB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:58) Raymond: would you be willing to give me a quote about whether or not banning Napster is a violation of the free speech of consumers? |
| <dmienM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:58) Xn - these kinds of licensing are something i disagree with - i reject licensing |
| <SuzieW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:58) let the courts decide, but jack will try to influence the courts |
| <RonM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:58) i'm late coming into this: is the issue still linking or the decss code itself ? |
| <HamishM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:58) exactly jack |
| <SuzieW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:58) 99.9%???? where'd he get that stat??? |
| <Xn> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:58) dmienM: then you shouldn't agree to them |
| <HamishM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:59) 99% will agree if you are fair... |
| <PrivateC> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:59) RonM, it's more about Napster, not DeCSS |
| <AaronC> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:59) Hollywood should not own creative peoples ideas...we the people refute. ...er, at least I do. |
| <RaymondR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:59) BethB: Sorry can't do that but I can say Napster isn't a code cracker |
| <RonM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:59) or RIAA or MPAA? |
| <yoM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:59) this isn't the 'is code considered speech' kinda issue beth |
| <DavidM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:59) The court's decision in the Napster case did not order any banning of Napster |
| <LarryJ> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:59) someone needs to ask the question about authority... |
| <PrivateC> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:59) Beth, why is your angle a free speech one? |
| <Xn> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:59) AaronC: you own anything you create until you agree to give them to somebody else..nobody enters into a recording contract with a gun to their head (well, tina turner might've, but...) |
| <BethB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:00) What about you Aaron? Do you think Napster involves the free speech of consumers or do commercial rights override this? |
| <RonM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:00) code IS speech. it can be read as poetry or sang as a song |
| <RonM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:00) a device is equipment, solid state |
| <BethB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:00) LikeI said Private--I'm a journalism student and was assigned this angle? |
| <SivanG> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:00) just in case you missed it, there will be questions chosen from discussion rooms that will be posed to the speakers |
| <WhitneyB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:00) Xn: did you ever negotiate a recording contract? |
| <dmienM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:00) Xn - just because i am hawking a product that is patr if daily life doesnt mean that i should be able to impose any rules i please on them - i reject them - i dont read the print - i simply ignore them |
| <Xn> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:00) WhitneyB: no, i haven't |
| <JohnB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:00) yeah. go goldstein! |
| <arianneD> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:00) don't appreciate the tina turner crack :) |
| <yoM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:00) you need to tell your boss to get a clue then Beth ;) |
| <SteveR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:00) hey everyone... what |
| <AaronC> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:00) I can only say that the "fair use" clause is what I agree with. <smile> 8) |
| <SteveR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:01) what's going on so far? |
| <SuzieW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:01) who is asking the question? |
| <WhitneyB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:01) "Freedom to contract" means freedom to fleece |
| <BethB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:01) thanks for the inupt yom |
| <dmienM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:01) sivanG - ok heres a question - doesnt the expiration of copyright encourage the creation of new material |
| <BethB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:01) he writes for the Globe |
| <yoM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:01) that's off the record of course |
| <Xn> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:01) dmienM: do you reject all property rights? should i ignore your title to your car and just take it as my own? |
| <yoM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:01) :) |
| <HamishM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:01) I think it's 1st amendment only to the degree that the responsibility for compliance is put on Napster, not on the user, there is no common-carrier status for Napster as there is for telcos.... IT COULD be used for violation.... does not mean it will, or that the operator is liable... |
| <PrivateC> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:01) Well, how about this: Bands that haven't signed with MPAA members also have a right to reach their listeners. With P2P technology such as Napster, they have the means to do so. Banning this will have a chilling effect on their free speech. |
| <WhitneyB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:01) WOW Eric Corly |
| <arianneD> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:01) recording contracts are almost be definition adhesive--it's hard to be unknown and negotiate the fine print |
| <dmienM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:01) XN - i reject the right of toyota to impose laws on me just because i purchaase a car from them |
| <HamishM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:02) there's a lot of IP in a car... |
| <RonM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:02) people, video == MPAA and audio == RIAA |
| <DavidM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:02) No one has banned anything. Artists that want to make their music avaialble through Napster are free to do so |
| <RonM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:02) MPAA and bands have nothing in common |
| <PrivateC> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:02) Not banned *yet* |
| <HamishM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:02) the court made Napster responsible for violations... |
| <MikeU> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:02) I missed it... was that Corley? |
| <LarryJ> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:02) evade, evade, evade... |
| <WhitneyB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:02) yes |
| <Xn> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:02) PrivateC: you don't have a right to distribute your music..i would certainly agree that napster is a great way for artists to distribute their music, but it's not relevent |
| <dmienM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:03) sivanG - ok heres a question - doesnt the expiration of copyright encourage the creation of new material |
| <BethB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:03) Harrish? |
| <Xn> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:03) dmienM: you didn't answer the question |
| <WilliamW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:03) Question for Valenti: do you think copyright law should allow fair use of a 5 minute digital clip on my UC Santa Barbara college course web site so that I and my students may submit it to analysis and criticism? |
| <HamishM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:03) "I don't have vote in congress..." |
| <PrivateC> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:03) Xn, true, not a right, but when a way exists, and it gets banned because others abuse it, it harms the legitimate user. |
| <LarryJ> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:03) yeah, he has to buy other peoples votes.... |
| <BethB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:03) Harrish----May I ask are you a student? |
| <dmienM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:04) xn - i reject the ongoing relationship that liucensing implies - the transaction is done - over finished - not ongoing |
| <SivanG> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:04) let me clarify the questions...just feel free to discuss among yourselves and then questions out of those discussions may be chosen |
| <AaronC> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:04) DMCA - Dumb Miscreant Crap Act |
| <Xn> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:04) dmienM: then you shouldn't enter into contracts that state otherwise |
| <RaymondR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:05) dmienM: that is licensing is different from a contract? |
| <PrivateC> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:05) Long term interests in the corporations |
| <HamishM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:05) "property..." |
| <arianneD> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:05) are these comments being recorded? |
| <AaronC> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:05) oh yes...God forbit the "industry" not make even MORE money off of an author's work. |
| <RonM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:05) this will all come down to a case arguing the constitutionality of the DMCA. |
| <HamishM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:05) NB. All my property, my words here, are offered to the world without limit... |
| <AbeF> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:05) yes, this conversation is logged |
| <RonM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:05) that case will be a WELL KNOWN case in our history |
| <BethB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:05) nothing is on record |
| <PrivateC> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:05) Yes, RonM. It will all come down to the Supreme Court |
| <HamishM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:06) LOGGED... without my permission!? <j/k>. |
| <dmienM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:06) xn, raymond - the right to impose a contract or licensing should be limited - this what they are talking about now |
| <WhitneyB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:06) If the DMCA limits research and education about encryption, doesn;t this pose a national secutiry risk in the next war? Wasn;t WWII largely won by cracking the Enigma device? |
| <VictorM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:06) my words are my own, and copyrighted. I hereby give everyone permission to quote me. "Do I contradict myself? So, I contradict myself." - walt whitman. |
| <RaymondR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:06) PrivateC: In the long run people have to agree with the law; look at busing. |
| <SivanG> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:06) williamw: your question about using material for class...as I understand it, it is "fair use" to use copyrighted material for educational purposes |
| <AbeF> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:06) they might have meant that the debate is logged... |
| <arianneD> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:06) i don't know -- hamish -- did you sign a contract? |
| <PrivateC> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:07) Yes, RaymondR, there are times when the people, on the whole, show that a law is wrong. |
| <HamishM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:07) I'd respect copyright, if Jack's mates would refund me when their property is crap. |
| <RonM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:07) the DMCA prohibits a circumvention device... hello people, a device implicates something solid state, not code |
| <dmienM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:07) we dont need contracts pervading our life - i buy it i go home - i want their intreests to end at my doorstep |
| <VictorM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:07) fair use is more than just educational (and in some cases, it doesn't include educational.) fair use is, owning a personal copy of a work and making a backup for home use, with no intention of profiting from it, ever. |
| <PrivateC> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:07) DMCA = evil |
| <PrivateC> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:08) Violins playing... |
| <SuzieW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:08) yeah |
| <AaronC> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:08) No one makes profit from posting songs on Napster. 8) |
| <AbeF> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:08) DMCA= result of corporations owning our legistature |
| <HamishM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:08) Jack, about 0.1% of the world |
| <WhitneyB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:08) When anti-circumvention is outlawed, only outlaws will have anti-circumvention. Is that the policy we want? |
| <SuzieW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:08) "devoured" -- oooh. |
| <RonM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:08) good one AbeF |
| <HamishM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:08) "their property |
| <JohnB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:08) it is not property. |
| <VictorM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:08) ah but if you're making a copy (downloading) a song you don't own, then it's "profiting" because you didn't pay the price of ownership. |
| <LarryJ> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:08) but he's NOT answering the question! augh. |
| <HamishM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:08) The Hunchback of Notre Dame, is Hollywood's property Jack? |
| <PrivateC> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:09) Victor, even the RIAA says you can make a personal tape of your music and share it with your friends. Fair use applies. |
| <RaymondR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:09) Things were simpler before technology; Gutenberg |
| <DavidM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:09) Hhmm, I bought Lessig's book recently. Why did I have to pay for it if its not property? |
| <AaronC> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:09) WHOO!!!!!!!! Yeah Lessig. 8) |
| <eE> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:09) actually they didn't say that |
| <HamishM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:09) the paper is property, the ideas aren't |
| <wernerB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:09) How can someone claim IP on actual properity? |
| <HellH> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:09) Not really. The RIAA is trying to take away your right to copy. They didn't allow that willingly. They lost a court case. |
| <RonM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:09) damn, wish there wasn't a stream limit. i can't get the video... |
| <AbeF> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:10) I really wish |
| <AbeF> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:10) y er.. |
| <VictorM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:10) but the RIAA is in hyper mode, presuming everyone to be criminals, rather than people practicing their fair use rights. |
| <AaronC> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:10) Exactly...I can publish Lessig's ideas online tonight if I wish...he wants that. 8) |
| <AbeF> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:10) I could hear the converstation |
| <Xn> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:10) the audio sucks |
| <HamishM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:10) life+70 years is limited Jack? |
| <AbeF> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:10) too many connections open already |
| <DavidM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:10) I paid around $20 for that paper. I don't think it costs that much |
| <VictorM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:10) the broadcast is becoming slashdotted... and i have cablemodem! |
| <arianneD> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:10) the constitution has never numbered abything |
| <SivanG> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:11) tech problems, go to #techhelp |
| <JohnB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:11) and I'm at work on an OC-3. stop bitching. |
| <AbeF> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:11) I know about the slashdot part... thats why there are too many connections already |
| <wernerB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:11) yeah slashdot effect sucks... I can't view the broadcast |
| <PrivateC> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:11) The courts are still learning. Kaplan, for instance, seemed not to understand the tech. |
| <RaymondR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:11) DavidM: You always pay for information content. Consider a high class restaurant. |
| <HamishM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:11) or a burger |
| <RonM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:11) kaplan was no dumb ass though.... |
| <HamishM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:11) you decide, not the distributor how to get your sausage |
| <JohnB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:11) i got it good. just do the 14.4 version. the video is just people standing around |
| <Xn> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:11) i'm impressed the stream's coming off a win32 box and it's still up |
| <PrivateC> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:11) You can be smart and still not understand unfamiliar technology. |
| <HellH> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:12) I truly don't think any of this legislation matters. Music and movies will always spread faster than laws against them. |
| <DavidM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:12) But why should I pay - he just said its not property. Content wants to be free, doesn't it? |
| <RonM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:12) kaplan had a pretty good understanding of the tech |
| <ineD> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:12) Content doesn't want anything. |
| <PrivateC> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:12) I disagree, RonM |
| <RonM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:12) i've spent days reading all the court documents |
| <javierC> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:12) I don't get no audio or video: is there a live transcription of the event? |
| <JohnB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:12) no. I wish. |
| <AbeF> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:13) quick poll: how many people here are currently listening to an mp3? |
| <SivanG> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:13) no text transcription but there will be a video archive you can access shortly after the debate (give them a few hours to set it up) |
| <EricS> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:13) abef: me |
| <LarryJ> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:13) not me. |
| <EricS> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:13) abef: from a cd that I purchased |
| <LarryJ> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:13) I'm listening to the debate. |
| <Xn> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:13) i can only understand about every 5 words of the debate |
| <AlG> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:14) Hello my fellow americans. |
| <RonM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:14) the only mp3's i get from napster are songs hard to find or not available anymore.... |
| <AbeF> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:14) I figured that most people would be listening to the debate |
| <AaronC> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:14) there's Canadians here too. <smile> |
| <SivanG> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:14) all tech questions need to be directed at #techhelp |
| <AbeF> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:14) I, personally, dont use napster |
| <dmienM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:14) and australians |
| <HamishM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:14) .nz |
| <chrisD> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:14) more then one canadian |
| <PrivateC> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:14) I started using Napster only after the RIAA attacked it. |
| <AbeF> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:15) and most of my mp3s are from cd's I own |
| <AbeF> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:15) that's when I checked napster out |
| <JohnB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:15) well I think information wants to be free. |
| <AbeF> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:15) information simply obeys the 2nd law of tehrmodynamics |
| <Xn> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:15) original quote of the day: <JohnB> well I think information wants to be free. |
| <RonM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:15) too general JohnB |
| <AlG> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:15) Al Gore here. I've used Napster to wee what's out there, but I haven't downloaded. |
| <ineD> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:15) JohnB, thats a load of bunk |
| <AbeF> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:15) information diffuses, it doesn't really want anything |
| <RonM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:16) yeah, i hate information that's needy and stuff |
| <ineD> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:16) information wants nothing. people want information to be <whatever>. |
| <PrivateC> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:16) Information is inanimate, it doesn't want anything. Users, on the other hand... |
| <HamishM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:16) cat's want to be out of the bag |
| <JohnB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:16) how many here use linux? |
| <RonM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:16) me |
| <HamishM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:16) oops, Cats |
| <BradyB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:16) me |
| <AlG> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:16) Al Gore uses Linux. |
| <RaymondR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:16) linux here |
| <RonM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:17) al gore invented linux |
| <AbeF> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:17) still, a government trying to stop the spread of any information is like using a seive for an umbrella |
| <JohnB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:17) al gore does use linux (servers from VA) |
| <PrivateC> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:17) However, I do believe that ideas should be freely shared, and not hidden behind arbritrary rules and protections. |
| <natH> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:17) Linux is used here as well |
| <WilliamW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:17) Reason #1 for using Napster: to get recompense for the loss of my vynl collection when the industry "repurposed" it out of existence with the arrival of CDs. |
| <JohnB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:17) linux is a perfect example of mature people deciding to make information free. |
| <RyanH> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:17) Is anyone here from Harvard? |
| <HamishM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:17) piker Jack |
| <AnthonyL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:17) me |
| <JohnB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:17) for the good of humanity |
| <arianneD> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:17) YES, IAM |
| <SivanG> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:17) yes, I'm a law student at Harvard |
| <RyanH> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:17) Anyone know Chrisina Mulligan? |
| <RonM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:18) so, aren't most people here concerned about the linking ruling from kaplan?? |
| <AnthonyL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:18) sorry, I don't |
| <Xn> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:18) JohnB: i don't recall linus saying anything about the good of humanity.. |
| <JohnB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:18) differnce between whats legal and whats right. |
| <RonM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:18) i think that's a huge issue.... |
| <arianneD> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:18) NOPE |
| <ShawnX> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:18) So where is Jack |
| <ShawnX> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:18) heh |
| <PrivateC> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:18) No, RonM, for that's such an absurd violation of free speech, it won't stand. |
| <JohnB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:18) no. and linus doesn |
| <JohnB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:18) like napster |
| <HamishM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:18) presently I'm more concerned about the attempts to defend a business model using the law, rather than strucutre |
| <RonM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:18) many desist letters are going out from the MPAA based on the linking ruling.... |
| <PrivateC> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:19) Let 'em write as many letters as they want. |
| <AbeF> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:19) I'm about as concerned about Kaplan's linking ruling as I am about some dictator's latest speech |
| <RaymondR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:19) Hannish: yeah!! |
| <RonM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:19) yeah, the mpaa web site is only 12 links from decss code anyway... |
| <HamishM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:19) Jack, you quoted "moral right" earlier... I think... |
| <AbeF> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:19) heheh |
| <AbeF> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:20) I personally liked the exhibit A in the original DeCSS case |
| <RonM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:20) anyone here real concerned should check out the Electronic Frontier Foundation |
| <MikeU> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:20) why is it we have to compare to Europe on the length issue but not anything inconvenient to Jack? |
| <SivanG> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:20) all questions have been directed at Valenti - does anyone have a question for Lessig? |
| <arianneD> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:20) One minute he wants the US to be like France and the next he's distancing us |
| <wernerB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:21) yeah... Exhibit A becomes public record freely accessable to anyone |
| <SuzieW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:21) there are online questions directed to lessig. have someone pick them. |
| <AbeF> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:21) until they requested a closed trial |
| <FooF> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:21) wow |
| <AbeF> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:21) so the source was pulled from the public record |
| <RaymondR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:21) arianne: He particular eccentricities (self server) shouldn't influence right and wrong and feasability |
| <HamishM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:21) Good QUESTION! |
| <wernerB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:22) the edvidence is still there though.. .they can't centure it unless it is prooven to do irreprable damage to the company |
| <dmienM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:22) id like to ask what jacks opion is of the statement "the expiration of copyright encourages the creation of new works" |
| <WilliamW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:22) Question for Lessig: what adjustment to the grounding concept of copyright will allow us to take account of the immaterial aspect of digital works, and the fact that their is virtually zero marginal cost for distributing digital works? How can we take account of this difference in the digital in the way we think about "fair compensation" for authoring works? |
| <MikeU> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:23) Jack.. the libraries spoke out against the DMCA in the hearings.. where the hell are you hearing this? |
| <IvyA> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:23) The library community did *NOT* sign on to the DMCA... |
| <HamishM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:23) Ask a Question to the Assembled Group is the link WilliamW |
| <SivanG> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:23) Sorry, I just realized you can go to the "ask a question" link on the bottom right of your screen |
| <SuzieW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:23) then why doesn't lessig speak up, if he knows that the libraries haven't signed on... |
| <LarryJ> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:24) but can you excerpt it from DVD, Jack? |
| <IvyA> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:24) The library community worked very hard to get an enforcement exemption to the DMCA |
| <HamishM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:24) Q: I discover a cure for cancer. Due to my cynicism I copyright it and refuse to allow it to be used... |
| <Macki> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:24) Question for Valenti: While Judge Kaplan agreed to prohibit 2600 from linking to DeCSS, why do websites owned and operated by MPAA member companies, like Disney, along with websites like CNN, Scientific American, The New York Times, and Wired, continue to link to DeCSS without objection? |
| <SuzieW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:24) gee, Jack, answer the question! |
| <SivanG> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:24) all questions should be posed to the "ask a question" link on the bottom right corner of page |
| <RyanH> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:24) damn it, I can't connect |
| <AbeF> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:25) nobody can connect |
| <Macki> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:25) SivanG: I'm using an IRC client, not the webpage |
| <AbeF> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:25) its full |
| <ShawnX> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:25) I'm sorry, but *I* have my right to view a DVD on Linux |
| <ShawnX> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:25) and thats CANADA :P |
| <wernerB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:25) the MPAA says you do not ShawnX |
| <ShawnX> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:25) *MY* own DVD |
| <SuzieW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:25) the questions come up in a different window. I thought I couldn't connect either. |
| <ShawnX> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:25) wernerB: Not under Canadian Law |
| <wernerB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:25) you don't own your DVD... the MPAA does |
| <AbeF> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:25) thet's the thing |
| <AbeF> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:25) the MPAA is tryign to redefine ownershit |
| <AbeF> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:25) ship |
| <ShawnX> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:25) they are not going to get away with it |
| <AbeF> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:25) sorry bout that |
| <Macki> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:26) nevermind, got it. |
| <Macki> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:26) thanks |
| <wernerB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:26) the MPAA is trying to assert itself by defining it's own laws... |
| <FooF> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:26) i got through on the webpage |
| <AbeF> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:26) talk about a Freudian slip |
| <ShawnX> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:26) It would go to the surprime court in Canada if he tried to do that here |
| <HamishM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:26) "I don't understand why..." |
| <FatsoTheWombat> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:26) Who saw the Oylimpics ? |
| <ShawnX> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:26) heh |
| <HamishM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:26) oh, Jack, please, It's not simple |
| <ShawnX> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:26) im sorry Jack, *YOU* dont *AND* wont tell me what I Can use to view my DVDS! |
| <HamishM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:27) what is property |
| <ShawnX> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:27) this is dangerous |
| <ShawnX> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:27) cause soon they'll demand all PCs have some sort of |
| <ShawnX> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:27) protection |
| <AbeF> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:27) but they're not your dvd's |
| <EddieO> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:27) jesus, this argument is stupid |
| <ShawnX> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:27) Napster in Canada is legal |
| <ShawnX> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:27) :) |
| <AbeF> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:27) you're just licensing the right to view them on an MPAA licensed player |
| <ShawnX> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:27) according to our government |
| <wernerB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:27) you don't own your DVD's... you only own the right to view them in you own home by yourself |
| <AbeF> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:28) or so the MPAA would like everyone to think |
| <ShawnX> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:28) AbeF: I purchase the DVD its my property, I have the right to use it for my personal use |
| <wernerB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:28) Napster is Legal in the US too... (at least for now) |
| <ineD> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:28) if you destroy the dvd they don't care |
| <AbeF> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:28) you're supposed to |
| <Joshua> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:28) we don't agree to such conditions when purchasing the DVD |
| <EddieO> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:28) napster should be illegal |
| <ShawnX> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:28) wernerB: Its legal in Canada because we pay a tax to the recording artists |
| <AbeF> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:28) but they're trying to change that |
| <EddieO> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:28) is just like stealing unless you own the media you download already |
| <ShawnX> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:28) for tapes, CDs |
| <Joshua> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:28) the MPAA prints its conditions after you start watching the DVD |
| <AbeF> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:29) the MPAA is trying to say "you bought it from me, but I can still tell you how to use it" |
| <EddieO> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:29) how can you argue anything else? |
| <wernerB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:29) why should I pay a tax for something I don't listen to? |
| <AbeF> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:29) the trouble is, the MPAA already has that in law |
| <IvyA> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:29) Zittrain just raised an issue that is a real issue for libraries... |
| <wernerB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:29) I should be able to support artists I feel are diservant of my money/support |
| <HamishM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:29) being human Eddie means we can disagree, or is there a new law bought by the MPAA? |
| <ShawnX> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:29) the MPAA doesnt understand, this is 2000 this isn't 1943 |
| <ShawnX> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:29) :P |
| <BradyB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:29) libraries and universities have to buy the dvd and video tapes there for paying you so of course he is agreeing with that "type" of fair use |
| <wernerB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:29) or 1984 for that matter |
| <ShawnX> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:29) hehe |
| <kug> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:30) what if i buy a used CD. Who owns that ? |
| <stuartM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:30) i think that the mpaa is just annoyed with napster.. cause it effectivly prohibits them from charging money for online music..they arent worried about losing CD sales.. they arent worrying about theft.. they just want a piece of the internet pie and they cant get any until everyone else has to charge also |
| <IvyA> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:30) there is no 'first sale doctrine' in electronic information, it is licensed and rights are controlled by contract |
| <AbeF> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:30) you can't legally buy a used cd |
| <AbeF> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:30) almost |
| <HamishM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:30) "I believe in fair use, and a technology and law that prevent it..." Jack, you're a complicated guy. |
| <kug> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:30) Yes I can. |
| <ShawnX> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:30) Sorry Jack, your not going to tell me how to use a DVD *I* purchased on ANY operating system I decide |
| <AbeF> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:30) part of some law or other is also trying to make it illegal to re-sell medis |
| <RaymondR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:30) IvyA: One of the reasons I use linux |
| <AbeF> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:30) media |
| <EddieO> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:31) im not saying you shouldnt disagree i just dont understand how you can argue that something like napster is legal when dealing with copyrighted material |
| <AbeF> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:31) I forget which b.s. act that is part of |
| <ShawnX> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:31) DeCSS will continue regardless of his blabbering |
| <HamishM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:31) Fair use is not defined by the owner, it's the law that Jack so deeply respects |
| <ShawnX> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:31) and We will have a Linux DVD player (we do now) |
| <ShawnX> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:31) and then I will buy a DVD player |
| <ShawnX> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:31) and ignore him |
| <ShawnX> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:31) :) |
| <HamishM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:31) Government of the people, by the Corporations, For the Corporations |
| <AbeF> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:31) I just wanna know if Jack can have me arrested for wearing my DeCSS source T-shirt |
| <kug> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:31) How is it then that Blockbuster et al can get away with selling their used media ? |
| <ShawnX> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:31) hahaha |
| <RaymondR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:32) Hamish: We have drifted far to the right... in this country |
| <LarryJ> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:32) I wear my DeCSS tshirt, and love to answer the questions it generates.. |
| <BrianM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:32) What if I bought a VideoTape of Star Wars, and stood on the street corner with 2 VCRs and allowed people to come to me a make a free copy with THEIR blank tape? = NAPSTER |
| <ShawnX> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:33) Jack I agree, but *I* have the right to my DVD ANY LEGAL WAY |
| <ShawnX> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:33) that I see fit |
| <ShawnX> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:33) Unauthorized as in using it on Linux? |
| <natH> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:33) no but if star wars is on tv, people can record it |
| <RaymondR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:33) BrianM: Then you have done something wrong. but if I pick a tape off of the sidewalk then I have not broken a moral law |
| <ChristopherH> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:33) how many people are here fro slashdot? |
| <AbeF> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:33) me |
| <ShawnX> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:33) xchat |
| <ShawnX> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:33) ;) |
| <natH> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:33) im here from /. |
| <ineD> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:33) from /. |
| <EddieO> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:33) me too |
| <BrianM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:33) Isn't Napster more or less providing the "VCRs"? |
| <JeffM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:33) i am too |
| <Colonol_Panic> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:34) i am |
| <kug> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:34) everybody! |
| <wernerB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:34) I found this link from Slashdot.... |
| <KerryB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:34) from /. |
| <ShawnX> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:34) JackV: Get with the program |
| <LarryJ> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:34) not me... from the openlaw list. |
| <mastaP> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:34) from /. |
| <ShawnX> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:34) er |
| <EricS> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:34) slashdot here also |
| <ShawnX> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:34) Jack :) |
| <HamishM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:34) I've read /., but I'm not here "from" it, I may have seen this debate advertised there... |
| <ChristopherH> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:34) i bet 90% of the people here are from slashdot.org |
| <ShawnX> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:34) i love my cable :) |
| <ShawnX> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:34) heh |
| <AbeF> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:34) close to it |
| <kug> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:34) Jack hurry up and d |
| <HatamotoM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:34) Here a slash, there a slash, everywhere a slash dot. |
| <ShawnX> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:34) its smooth streaming |
| <ineD> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:34) Hamish, that's what (s)he meant, i do believe |
| <EricS> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:35) anyone getting video or audio? |
| <natH> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:35) I am |
| <ShawnX> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:35) both |
| <BradyB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:35) yep |
| <BradyB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:35) both |
| <kug> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:35) dsl is choppy |
| <NathanY> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:35) getting both fine |
| <SivanG> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:35) kug: to answer your question, the law distinguishes between selling/giving away a product you bought and making copies of it which you sell or give away |
| <PatrickS> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:35) nope |
| <daveM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:35) wetf |
| <daveM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:35) wtf |
| <daveM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:35) the server is fucked |
| <LarryJ> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:35) cable is great. |
| <HamishM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:35) I guess I 'm cautious as I would hate to have 90% of what has been said here attributed to disaffected geeks from /. |
| <daveM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:35) it says server full |
| <natH> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:35) college is great sitting on a t3 |
| <BrianM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:35) Not when you give away Millions! |
| <EddieO> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:35) keep trying |
| <mastaP> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:35) real player shit |
| <daveM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:35) too bad server is fuckign full |
| <HenrL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:35) Server is major slashdotted |
| <ShawnX> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:35) hehe |
| <LarryJ> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:35) 34K surestream. really clear here. |
| <daveM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:35) fuck them dude |
| <ChristopherH> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:35) There should be a law that says corporations can't push to make laws that take away |
| <daveM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:35) server is slashdoted |
| <EddieO> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:35) its almost over anyway |
| <ShawnX> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:36) 80K stream |
| <ShawnX> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:36) heh |
| <ChristopherH> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:36) rights of people |
| <sb-fire> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:36) I have 56k, and the server is full anyhow |
| <wernerB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:36) there is it's called the constitution |
| <daveM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:36) fuck this |
| <AbeF> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:36) what's the constitution? |
| <daveM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:36) is there gonna be a transcript of this? |
| <daveM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:36) or mirrors? |
| <ShawnX> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:36) stuned? |
| <ShawnX> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:36) haha |
| <daveM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:36) after the fact |
| <mastaP> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:36) porn @ 128K stream plz |
| <ChristopherH> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:36) what about those of use who live OUTSIDE the usa... |
| <wernerB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:36) It's this real old document mostly forgotten |
| <SivanG> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:36) no text transcript, but there will be a video archive |
| <ShawnX> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:36) I refuse to clap for him |
| <daveM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:36) i watched a phish show live at 716k/s last night |
| <daveM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:36) it was fucking l33t |
| <arianneD> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:36) it's over |
| <BrianM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:36) There seemed to have been a mass brain vacuum... |
| <daveM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:36) this shit is gay |
| <MikeU> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:36) seems Jack is surprised that people care about their rights. who knew.. |
| <ShawnX> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:36) its over |
| <ineD> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:36) daveM, that was fantastic |
| <daveM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:36) what irc network is this? |
| <sb-fire> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:36) consititution is like the Magna Carta.... |
| <daveM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:36) i wanna get on it off this java client |
| <wernerB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:37) the MPAA doesn't care about Political borders |
| <AnthonyL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:37) that was great |
| <daveM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:37) mpaa == lame. |
| <joeC> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:37) gnutella/freenet will make napster/ip property issues a moot point. get over it already. |
| <ShawnX> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:37) terminated |
| <ShawnX> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:37) heh |
| <HamishM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:37) MPAA cares about precisely one thing... MONEY |
| <sb-fire> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:37) Jack Valenti, isn't he that dude that likes getting fucked in the ass by stile? |
| <daveM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:37) dude what irc network is this? |
| <HatamotoM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:37) The MPAA is a political border. |
| <wernerB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:37) and that's what It all comes down to... MONEY |
| <jackmeoffvalentiV> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:37) Burn Hollywood Burn |
| <ChristopherH> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:37) the mpaa and RIAA organizations should be illegal under antitrust laws... |
| <AbeF> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:37) the MPAA owns our legislature and courts, so they are above the constituiton |
| <HamishM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:37) later, thanks |
| <NathanY> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:37) geesh, tell me its over |
| <NathanY> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:37) dammit |
| <HatamotoM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:37) The world is turning into a collection of commercial nation-states. |
| <wernerB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:37) money is more important than my rights |
| <JeremiahG> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:37) the love of money is the root of all evil |
| <daveM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:37) anyone know a irc server to connect to this java client is gey |
| <ineD> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:37) bcis.law.harvard.edu:6667 |
| <LarryJ> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:37) yep, it's over. |
| <KerryB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:37) Courts no longer toss out unconstitutional laws without extraordinary pressure, until that changes, its over. |
| <stuartM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:37) Midget People Annoying America |
| <ShawnX> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:37) its not happning in Canada Im happy ;-) |
| <NathanY> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:37) anyone know if it was archived anywhere? |
| <SivanG> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:37) event is over so goodnight! |
| <MikeU> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:37) Good point AbeF. Jack kept telling us to talk to Congress, but he throws parties for them |
| <kug> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:37) its absolutely ludicrous to think that I can sell a copyrighted item and profit from it but not give it away |
| <HatamotoM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:38) shawnx: What isn't? |
| <JeremiahG> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:38) its pretty funny that CD sales have gone UP - Nappy hasnt hurt a THING |
| <jackmeoffvalentiV> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:38) ShawnX - you Moron, MPAA control Canada too |
| <BradyB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:38) here is the irc server bcis.law.harvard.edu:6667 |
| <ShawnX> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:38) our government doesn't cave into corporate like USA |
| <e-uoaphys> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:38) finally |
| <ShawnX> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:38) jackmeoffvalentiV: uhm, not really |
| <HatamotoM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:38) shawnx: LOL LOL LOL LOL |
| <AbeF> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:38) Jack knows that congress won't listen to us |
| <SivanG> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:38) kug: you can give a product away, you just can't copy it and give away copies |
| <e-uoaphys> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:38) thanks whoever that was that hooked m eup wth server nfo |
| <HatamotoM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:38) shawnx: You're wrong. |
| <RaymondR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:38) bye guys the conversation has gone down hill |
| <ShawnX> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:38) jackmeoffvalentiV: I would win in court to use a DVD in Linux |
| <ShawnX> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:38) :-) |
| <AbeF> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:38) because we don't give congress enough money |
| <ShawnX> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:38) its my right |
| <HatamotoM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:38) shawnx: Ever hear of 'MacBlo'? |
| <ShawnX> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:38) uh no |
| <jackmeoffvalentiV> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:39) ShawnX - NO YOU WOULDN'T. |
| <HatamotoM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:39) MacMillian Bloedel. |
| <Jack_Valenti_AA_Member> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:39) Hi, I am Jack Valenti and I am a Alcoholic |
| <MikeU> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:39) Head over to www.thismodernworld.com and check out his convention coverage. the MPAA threw a bash at the GOP convention where Dick Armey made a comment that made headlines. It was Jack's party, folks, and that kind of access tips the scales, now doesn't it? |
| <HatamotoM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:39) One of the largest foresting companies out west. Raped and pilliged the landscape with the governments blessing cuz of money. |
| <mastaP> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:39) trudeau woulda fixed this up |
| <jackmeoffvalentiV> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:39) ShawnX - ever heard of cphack? |
| <natH> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:39) any one know where this is going to be archived? ie where can I d/l the whole thing |
| <AbeF> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:39) I say we throw a party for the MPAA officials... |
| <ShawnX> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:39) jackmeoffvalentiV: I will not be told how to use a product for my personal use |
| <e-uoaphys> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:39) guys #GC2 has ppl in it to same convo |
| <jackmeoffvalentiV> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:39) ShawnX - Mattel sued a Canadian for cracking it across the border |
| <AbeF> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:40) little cyanide in the punch and all pur problems dissapear |
| <jackmeoffvalentiV> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:40) ShawnX - Mattel won. |
| <Jack_Valenti_AA_Member> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:40) I say we throw a party with wet naked lesbians at my house |
| <HatamotoM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:40) The canadian government is every bit as corrupt and graft as the american. Canadians are just too lazy to give a damn. |
| <HatamotoM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:40) jack: I'm up for that. |
| <jackmeoffvalentiV> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:40) ShawnX - P.S. I'm Canadian too |
| <ShawnX> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:40) jackmeoffvalentiV: you cant sue me from the USA and charge someone in Canada and then make them go to the USA |
| <HatamotoM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:40) jackme: ditto |
| <wernerB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:40) and the US citizens arn't |
| <jackmeoffvalentiV> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:40) ShawnX - Think again.... Mattel did, and they won. The Canadian lost. |
| <MPAA> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:40) i own you all |
| <ShawnX> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:41) jackmeoffvalentiV: I go by Canadian law only |
| <ShawnX> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:41) not USA |
| <ShawnX> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:41) the DMCA act does not apply to me |
| <ShawnX> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:41) nor any of that crap |
| <MPAA> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:41) ph34r me |
| <MPAA> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:41) i will sue you till you die! |
| <ShawnX> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:41) jackmeoffvalentiV: and what did they do |
| <wernerB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:41) that's why this whole thing is allowed to happen... people are too lazy to assert their rights |
| <MPAA> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:41) MUAHAHAHHAHAH |
| <HatamotoM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:41) shawnx: heh... you're really not in realityland are you? |
| <MPAA> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:41) you will all go to jail for stealing my movies with that DVD |
| <MPAA> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:41) damnit,k stop copying my dvd! |
| <MPAA> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:41) that decss program is bad! |
| <jackmeoffvalentiV> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:41) ShawnX - cphack cracked their "NetNanny" type software. Mattel sued the dude, ACROSS the border. |
| <AbeF> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:41) nobody's trying to copy dvd's |
| <ShawnX> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:42) HatamotoM: Under my Law they can't extradite me to the USA without a good reason |
| <AbeF> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:42) just view them |
| <ShawnX> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:42) jackmeoffvalentiV: and what happened after that |
| <jackmeoffvalentiV> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:42) ShawnX - You can't win against the big corporations anymore, in any country. |
| <HatamotoM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:42) jack: That's because he was SUED, not PROSECUTED. There's a difference between criminal and civil law. |
| <ShawnX> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:42) jackmeoffvalentiV: No USA Court is going to tell *ME* what to do |
| <HatamotoM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:42) shawnx: They sued a canadian in canada. |
| <jackmeoffvalentiV> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:42) Hatamoto - I never said he was going to jail... They still got what they wanted. |
| <ShawnX> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:42) I have my rights as a Canadian citizen |
| <HatamotoM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:42) They can do that shit. |
| <ShawnX> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:42) HatamotoM: thats different |
| <ShawnX> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:42) hehehe |
| <HatamotoM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:42) Is it? |
| <wernerB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:42) You have no Rights under the MPAA law |
| <ShawnX> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:42) if they sued him IN a Canadian COURT |
| <ShawnX> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:43) then it goes by Canadian law whatever the issue is |
| <jackmeoffvalentiV> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:43) ShawnX - correct. And the won. |
| <AbeF> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:43) it won't be too long before they can prosecute you though |
| <HatamotoM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:43) shawnx: That's what they did. Lawsuits recognize few international borders. |
| <jackmeoffvalentiV> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:43) ShawnX - actually, they settled out of court because the dude couldn't fight a corporation. |
| <AbeF> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:43) all they have to do is buy a few more legislators |
| <HatamotoM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:43) Abef: Well, interpol and such are set up to help with that, but most contries get ornery about that sort of thing. |
| <AbeF> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:43) say something about "fighting international crime" |
| <ShawnX> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:43) jackmeoffvalentiV: thats what we have to prevent in Canada |
| <AbeF> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:44) and they can prosecute you to their heart's content |
| <wernerB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:44) and they will given the chance |
| <mastaP> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:44) open source porn? |
| <ShawnX> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:44) AbeF: and it wont matter if they cant get me out of the country ;-) |
| <Jack_Valenti_AA_Member> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:44) anyone have hot grits |
| <jackmeoffvalentiV> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:44) ShawnX - face it, Chretien is more than willing to bend over backwards for the corporations. |
| <HatamotoM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:44) That's true. You can be tried In Absentia in many places, and then just bust your ass when you set foot in thier country |
| <AbeF> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:44) ugh... too much slashdot now |
| <HatamotoM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:44) (assuming extradition doesn't work) |
| <ShawnX> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:45) jackmeoffvalentiV: but not if it violates the constitution in any way |
| <jackmeoffvalentiV> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:45) Or, they'll sue you and free your Canadian assets. |
| <natalie_portman_with_hot_grits> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:45) hi al |
| <wernerB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:45) as previously stated... the MPAA is above the Constitution |
| <natalie_portman_with_hot_grits> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:45) anyone gonna cum get me? |
| <HatamotoM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:45) Yeah, they could probably do that too. |
| <natalie_portman_with_hot_grits> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:45) trolll |
| <HatamotoM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:45) natalie: Are you nekkid and petrified? |
| <natalie_portman_with_hot_grits> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:45) hat yes! |
| <ShawnX> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:45) jackmeoffvalentiV: I could sue them for anti-competative actions, by not letting me use Linux to view my DVD and to be forced to use Windows |
| <HatamotoM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:45) natalie: Woo. Get me hard. |
| <natalie_portman_with_hot_grits> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:45) hat come get me baby! |
| <AbeF> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:45) now im just waiting for a "FIRST P0ST!!!!!" |
| <ShawnX> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:46) thats anti-competitive |
| <natalie_portman_with_hot_grits> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:46) im rubbing my tittys |
| <HatamotoM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:46) frist prost. |
| <wernerB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:46) who are they competing with? |
| <natalie_portman_with_hot_grits> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:46) abe, not funny! |
| <AbeF> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:46) thanks |
| <HatamotoM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:46) natalie: What titties? |
| <natalie_portman_with_hot_grits> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:46) hatamoto, my tittys! |
| <CmdrTaco> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:46) Natalie has nice titties |
| <jackmeoffvalentiV> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:46) ShawnX - I don't think you understand the issues... |
| <natalie_portman_with_hot_grits> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:46) im puring grits down john katz panties |
| <HatamotoM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:46) Not according to any pic I've seen of her ;) |
| <ShawnX> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:46) i gotta interview tomorrow, more important ;-) |
| <natalie_portman_with_hot_grits> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:46) of her? |
| <jackmeoffvalentiV> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:46) It has nothing to do with anti-competitiveness |
| <natalie_portman_with_hot_grits> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:46) me |
| <AbeF> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:46) dammit I can read slashdot any time |
| <AbeF> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:46) go away |
| <mastaP> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:46) ShawnX: you want a closed border, don't yeah |
| <CmdrTaco> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:47) http://www.goatse.cx for good pics of Natalie Portman nekkid and petrified |
| <natalie_portman_with_hot_grits> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:47) cmdrtaco |
| <natalie_portman_with_hot_grits> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:47) your a lamer |
| <natalie_portman_with_hot_grits> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:47) if you wanna fuck me just do it. dont show us a pic of some guy's asshole |
| <wernerB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:47) we need to stop with all the slashdotisms |
| <natalie_portman_with_hot_grits> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:47) no we dont |
| <AbeF> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:47) troll content getting too high |
| <natalie_portman_with_hot_grits> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:48) this convo already die the first mintue it started |
| <AbeF> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:48) must leave |
| <natalie_portman_with_hot_grits> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:48) too bad there is no -1 troll setting on irc ehh? |
| <AbeF> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:48) go have some intelligent conversation over CS ingame chat |
| <natalie_portman_with_hot_grits> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:48) thanks you bradyb |
| <natalie_portman_with_hot_grits> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:48) im glad to be on yoru ignore list. |
| <CmdrTaco> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:48) AbeF Moderation -1 |
| <AbeF> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:49) <troll mode> fux0r you! |
| <AbeF> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:49) im just too 1337 for you to handle!! |
| <AbeF> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:49) </troll mode> |
| <CmdrTaco> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:49) ***finger Unknown command |
| <kug> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:53) Quit |
| <ineD> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 21:23) they have the archived video up yet? |
| <BrianR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 21:37) Did I miss the video? |
| <BrianR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 21:37) Is it recorded somewhere? |
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