| Nickname - Message |
|---|
| <BrandiE> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:38) Hi Melanie, Kevin and Whafro, I just wanted to let you know that we haven't started yet. |
| <KevinB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:39) So it seems... |
| <KevinB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:42) Brandi, I presume you are staff, correct? |
| <Whafro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:43) hrm, sound is off I'll assume? |
| <KevinB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:43) i'm getting sound. |
| <Whafro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:44) hrm, okay, it was just low :P |
| <BrandiE> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:44) Kevin, no I'm a third year student here. |
| <Whafro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:45) Do you know any Piranians Brandi? |
| <KevinB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:46) Oh, I'm a third year law student also. |
| <BrandiE> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:46) Kevin, unfortunately I don't. What is it? |
| <BrandiE> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:46) Sorry about that Whafro, that was directed at you. |
| <Whafro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:46) I have a few friends in the Piranian family who go to harvard law school, one just graduated |
| <Whafro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:47) ...small talk |
| <BrandiE> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:47) I don't really know many students outside my class---our classes are quite large. |
| <Whafro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:48) Oh, okay, me being a hs senior, I wouldn't know ;-) |
| <BrandiE> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:49) Hey Everyone--please introduce yourselves. |
| <ErnestM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:49) Greetings, Ernest Miller, Resident Fellow for the Information Society Project at Yale Law School here |
| <AaronC> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:49) Aaron Cross - Telecom Student from Sheridan College (Oakville, Ontario, Canada) |
| <MelanieL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:49) Hi. I'm a third year student at Harvard Law School. |
| <SamuelM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:50) Samuel Moyn - HLS student. |
| <BrandiE> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:50) Thanks for joining us. |
| <SteveM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:50) Steve Mitra. NYU Law Student 3L. |
| <craigN> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:50) I'm a first year student at University of Missouri Kansas-City law school |
| <chrisK> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:50) Chris Koontz, security engineer |
| <KevinB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:50) I'm a thrid year law student from UC Davis. |
| <Whafro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:50) Jack Wilkinson, HS Senior getting sued for IP violations ;-) (harvard applicant ) |
| <AliceC> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:50) Alice Cheng, sophomore in Harvard College |
| <ErnestM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:50) Jack, what are you getting sued for? |
| <KevinB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:50) ...and I seem to be a poor typist this evening... |
| <AaronC> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:51) LOL |
| <AlbertC> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:51) Hello from Mexican American Political Assoc. Hollywood Chapter |
| <Whafro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:51) DigitalConvergance is threatening to sue me for vioplating their IP in connection to the CueCat (free barcode reader available at RadioShack) |
| <chrisK> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:51) <crosses fingers that his connection stays up> |
| <Whafro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:51) s/vioplating/violating |
| <ErnestM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:51) Ah yes, I have been in much contact with Michael Rothwell |
| <chrisK> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:51) has DigitalC presented evidence of patent or anything like that? |
| <Whafro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:52) patent pending, though there isn't much in the way of grounds on which they can be awarded a patent |
| <ErnestM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:52) DC has claimed they have a patent(s), but refuse to say what they are. |
| <AaronC> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:52) Anyone else from Canada here? |
| <ErnestM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:52) They hint at a DMCA violation as well. |
| <MelanieL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:52) Just to warn you all now -- I may be quiet this evening since RSI as made typing very painful for me -- ah, the joys of law school. |
| <Whafro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:52) I haven't been told what exactly I've done wrong yet besides "violated" their "intellectual property rights" |
| <ErnestM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:53) That has been DC's MO til now |
| <BrandiE> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:53) Whafro |
| <JackW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:53) fine, I've conformed :P |
| <chrisK> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:53) if you can afford to do so have a lawer request what the IP is/are within 7days like lineo did |
| <BrandiE> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:53) Sorry Jack-- |
| <chrisK> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:54) lineo has put thier stuff back online |
| <JackW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:54) Yes, my lawyers have asked repeatedly, and there hasn't been any solid answer |
| <AaronC> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:54) Aren't they bound to tell you the details of the charge? |
| <JackW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:55) they are if they have any plans of taking action |
| <JackW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:55) so I've been assuming that I'm relatively safe until they tell me the grounds |
| <AaronC> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:55) sounds reasonable |
| <JackW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:56) plus the fact that I'm a minor and they don't know it yet throws a kink into it |
| <chrisK> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:56) heck since lineo went ahead and put their stuff back online I figured it was a done deal.. |
| <AaronC> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:56) most definately |
| <Macki2600> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:56) anyhone here from the OpenDVD forum? |
| <ErnestM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:56) Here |
| <JackW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:56) yeah, none of my stuff has come down, and mine was the first stuff up |
| <ErnestM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:57) Avery Chapman and I wrote the motion to dismiss in the CT2600 DeCSS case |
| <chrisK> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:57) I wonder if the "foocat" author is here :) |
| <glennB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:57) I just got here -- I assume nothing's happened yet? |
| <JackW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:57) he should be coming, I talked to him earlier today |
| <chrisK> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:58) looks like they are doing sound/video check right now |
| <chrisK> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 18:58) haha :) |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:00) funny guy |
| <JackW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:01) hola |
| <MelanieL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:01) he's even funnier when you have him in class twice a week |
| <chrisK> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:01) Hello |
| <BrandiE> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:01) He's great!!--He's the Prof for the Internet and Society class. |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:01) shut up. i can barely understand your bad jokes, due to crappy realmedia |
| <JackW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:01) oh, well then, if he'll see this later, Jack Wilkinson thinks he's outstanding |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:02) ok ill be good now |
| <BrandiE> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:02) Thanks Mike. |
| <AaronC> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:03) ok...where's my video????????????? |
| <JackW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:03) har har |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:03) pity humor |
| <Lindsay> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:04) I can't get video either |
| <JackW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:04) are they using yellowed disco lights there? or is it just my favorite compression algorithm? |
| <AaronC> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:05) probably the latter...wish I could see. GRRRR 8) |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:05) i was under the impression that everything was yellowed at Harvard. |
| <JackW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:05) heh |
| <BrandiE> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:05) Those of you who are having problems with the video--go to the tech link. |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:05) seeing not that fun. just listen |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:06) product placement? what was that? |
| <craigN> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:06) so it has begun? |
| <SarahL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:06) Valenti has just introducing himself and his background |
| <chrisK> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:06) ya jValenti is doing his intro |
| <AaronC> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:06) ok...this is cruddy...the tech link "Video problems?" goes nowhere... |
| <JackW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:07) it works here... javascript on aaron? |
| <ErnestM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:07) Property, property, property. Could Jack define property with regard to products of the mind? |
| <AaronC> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:07) going to reboot... |
| <ErnestM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:08) Is "intellectual property" simply equivalent to Blackacre? |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:08) ouch! Jack Valenti stabs YOU for 100 points of damage. |
| <ErnestM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:08) How is one stealing, if I take an idea from you, you still have the idea. |
| <Macki> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:08) Judge Kaplan also said "The constitution is not a suicide pact" |
| <Macki> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:08) brilliant. |
| <MelanieL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:08) I was having similar issues with his property argument -- couldn't we update this concept somewhat, in keeping with the "new frontier"? |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:09) go stanford |
| <FranG> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:09) go bears |
| <JackW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:09) wow, as more people go on, my bitrate slowly goes from 384kbps to 34kbps |
| <ErnestM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:09) Stanford refuses to block Napster ... that means Stanford is teaching students to steal. |
| <AaronK> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:10) But the important question is, how many of you that used Napster /didn't/ buy an album because of it, or, how many bought an album /only/ because of hearing something d/led from Napster. Ugh. |
| <JackW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:10) does Harvard block napster? |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:10) Jack Valenti declares "War On Music" |
| <FranG> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:10) harvard does not block Napster |
| <ErnestM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:10) I imagine that since Stanford does not perform at will searches of the student body, Stanford is teaching students to permit any sort of crime. |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:10) hahaha... funny that wasnt a joke |
| <chrisK> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:10) I baught 2 albums from albums from what I first heared on napster that I wouln't have baught otherwise |
| <FranG> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:10) Thank you, ernest, I was forming that thought |
| <BrandiE> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:11) No, Harvard is not going to block Napster. |
| <chrisK> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:11) erms I carnt spell |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:11) well, the dea isnt standing over my shoulder all day, so they are teaching me to smoke crack |
| <MatthewM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:11) Jack Valenti representing the interests of artists is like our president speaking on behalf of faithful husbands. |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:11) word matt. word |
| <JackW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:11) werd |
| <MatthewM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:12) If Napster loses the case, some dude in Toronto does the same thing, so we'll just point our browser to napster.ca. No difference for me as a consumer. |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:12) well at least he can quantify it |
| <AlbertC> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:12) *******Valenti represents Corporate film producers not artists****** |
| <SteveM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:12) I don't know about this piling on. Many real creators I've talked to support tighter controls on intellectual "property" |
| <KevinB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:12) Scary that he sits on the boards of these companies, is he giving them cachet, or are they giving him cachet? |
| <ErnestM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:12) It is wonderful to offer movies, but will the MPAA permit fair use? That is the question. |
| <chrisK> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:12) there are "napster" servers located outside of the US if you look around |
| <ErnestM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:12) I don't care if the price is reasonable...I care that fair use is protected. |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:12) **true but he is TRYING to represent all IP here, imho** |
| <KevinB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:12) If Napster is shut down, we go to OpenNap, etc. |
| <JackW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:12) www.napigator.com |
| <AlbertC> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:13) Artists are the actors not the MPAA. SAG/AFTRA are on strike against MPAA |
| <ErnestM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:13) The MPAA refuses to permit fair use. |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:13) fair use whoops an albino ostrich booty |
| <BrandiE> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:13) I agree Steve--I think we must seek balance. |
| <KevinB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:13) "a 56K modem like I do," he is giving hte poor country boy speech! |
| <ErnestM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:13) Plans are in the works, to deal with digital rights management, but not to permit fair use. |
| <SteveM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:14) Ernest: Why don't you provide a definition of fair use you can live with?? |
| <chrisK> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:14) decss is gpl right? |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:14) go steelers |
| <Macki> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:14) chrisk: yes |
| <ErnestM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:14) DeCSS is GPL'd. |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:14) turn up the bass sound guys, sheesh |
| <chrisK> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:14) so I have permision to d/l it right? |
| <ErnestM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:14) More than happy to, SteveM, I am happy with the definition set forth in 17 USC |
| <JackW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:15) so what does DeCSS have to do with downloading at all? I use it to watch DVD's on Linux... it has nothing to do with DiVx ;-) |
| <JackW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:15) someone up the gain on the microphone and lower the level |
| <SteveM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:15) I can't hear Lessig at all ... someone fix the bass please |
| <ErnestM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:15) DeCSS has nothing to do with access control, it is digital rights management, and it eliminates fair use. |
| <SarahL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:15) I can barely hear him either |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:15) Property is Theft! |
| <FranG> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:16) I'm trying to take notes. Can't hear properly. |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:16) well its a little better now |
| <JackW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:16) this should be closed-captioned :P |
| <chrisK> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:16) cc would ROCK! |
| <ErnestM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:16) Go Larry! They didn't call it "property", they called it government backed monopolies. |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:16) what is lessig drinking?? |
| <glennB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:16) I think the problem with Lessig's mic/track is lack of treble, not bass. |
| <JackW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:16) glennB: excess bass |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:17) not in the sense what is he smoking, but what is the drink on his podium? |
| <BrandiE> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:17) I've passed on the word that there's a problem with the sound. |
| <glennB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:17) jackw: oh, right -- check. |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:17) is that water? |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:17) its extremely yellow for water... |
| <JackW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:17) lol |
| <glennB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:17) Thanks, BrandiE -- sorry we're moaning so much. |
| <JackW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:17) and it's not yellow enough for lemonade :P |
| <BrandiE> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:17) NO problem |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:17) yeah thank you |
| <chrisK> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:18) the whole video is yello.. I'm guessing they are parsing it through quake or something :) |
| <ErnestM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:18) Fourteen years is about right. Life + 75 is way, way too much for copyright protection. Dead people don't publish. |
| <FranG> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:18) ernest, you are right again |
| <JackW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:18) heh, "yeah, uhm, Johnny, make sure that video is going through the Yellow filter for all our viewers out there to talk about" |
| <glennB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:18) Sounds better now. |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:18) theyre trying to distract us with funny colors and strange noises |
| <Macki> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:18) They are working on the sound... |
| <KevinB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:19) My notes from Valenti's speech: There is too much theft on the Internet, the movie people don't like this. The internet will be big, but there is too much theft. There is too much theft. |
| <JackW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:19) oops |
| <KevinB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:19) I agree, c-right term is much too long right now. |
| <JackW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:19) there we go, camera out? |
| <AjayM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:20) Did Valenti actually read the Kaplan opinion? |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:20) Property is Theft |
| <ErnestM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:20) commie |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:20) please, anarchist is the term you seek |
| <ErnestM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:20) I didn't type that. |
| <JackW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:20) Libertarian :P |
| <RNesson> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:20) We are working on sound levels. If you have having a hard time hearing, hang in there for a minute. |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:20) haha |
| <JackW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:21) woah |
| <JackW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:21) burst of sound |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:21) good god |
| <glennB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:21) It sounds a lot better already, Becca. |
| <JackW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:21) not here, still too bassey |
| <ErnestM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:21) Becca -- Lina says "Hi" |
| <SteveM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:21) If it's anarchist/libertarian/commie vs. the movie industry, I'll take the latter any freaking day. |
| <FranG> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:21) You know, some of you guys are experiencing events 20-30 seconds before I am. Is it my west coast location? |
| <BrandiE> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:21) Some argue that extending copyrights to old works satisfies the Constitution's incentive requirement because heirs could use the additional income to help fund the creation of new works. I don't necessarily agree with this, but I was wondering what you all think? |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:22) maybe |
| <JackW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:22) hey hey, rasmussen polls show that 17% of Americans are Libertarian, even though they didn't discribe themselves as such |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:22) i cannot understand him hardly at all |
| <FranG> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:22) Your heirs are responsible for their own creativity. |
| <ErnestM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:22) Death of the Industry? The same claim was made about VCR, Cassette tape, Player Piano rolls, Xerox, etc. |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:22) ow |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:22) ow |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:22) ow |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:22) my ears |
| <BrandiE> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:22) Perhaps. |
| <KevinB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:22) i don't agree, I think incentive enough should be trying to best your ancestors creatively. |
| <JackW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:22) ach |
| <chrisK> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:22) much better! |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:23) headphones + bad sound guy = trouble |
| <MelanieL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:23) BrandiE, That argument doesn't do it for me -- why privilege the heris over others who could produce new works once the old ones were in the public domain?? |
| <AaronK> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:23) in theory, sure, but in modern America I imagine heirs are more likely to produce "new works" in the form of re-releases of the same old stuff their "ancestors" made. |
| <FranG> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:23) It's louder, not better |
| <JackW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:23) and then ancestry is such a bitter argument waiting to happen |
| <BrandiE> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:23) I don't agree with the statement, but it was used by Arthur Miller. |
| <AaronK> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:23) still too much bass |
| <glennB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:23) Yeah, a little muddy. |
| <SteveM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:23) This is still awful -- can't hear anything. |
| <BrandonS> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:23) I feel like I'm listening to the person taking my order at the Burger King Drive thru |
| <MelanieL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:24) AaronK, I agree - and why give deference to the "same old stuff" over brand new stuff? |
| <SteveM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:24) Burger King is better |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:24) that will be sHJKSDHWErh 95. please pull forward |
| <JackW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:24) heh |
| <JackW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:24) I wish this were on the overhead projector for everyone in the hall |
| <SarahL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:24) yeah, the sound is still pretty bad. |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:24) what our chat? |
| <AaronK> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:24) MelanieL: because, sadly, the general (American) public would rather buy another Elvis (for example) expose book than a truly new work. :p |
| <AaronK> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:25) or so it seems to me. |
| <FranG> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:25) "doobledoo" I think he might mean DVD |
| <JackW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:25) yes, to see what we think of them as they speak |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:25) doobiedoobiedoo |
| <ErnestM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:25) According to Jack Valenti, that is precisely what the DMCA provides ... the right to control how you use copyrighted material. |
| <MelanieL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:25) Aaron K: True enough, I guess, but extremely depressing... |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:26) according to the DMCA that is precisely what the DMCA provides... thats the problem |
| <FranG> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:26) Fantastic. Everytime he comes on a good quotation, it shouds like "wollofrowrr" |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:26) pocahontas |
| <ErnestM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:26) Actually, that is not what the DMCA provides ... but that is what the MPAA claims |
| <JackW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:26) I heard something about quazzimoto |
| <FranG> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:27) "the cremagoona of a rich technology" |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:27) internet lets us all produce content not controlled by one organization |
| <SteveM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:27) Seems like the discussion is shaping up between a businessman arguing "incentives, incentives, incentives" and a lawyer arguing "culture, culture, culture." |
| <MelanieL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:27) I can't haer anything anymore |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:27) really, mel? youre the only one ) |
| <JackW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:27) heh |
| <glennB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:27) I'm lost, too. |
| <BrandiE> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:28) Steve--don't you think that Lessig is not just arguing for culture, but for a balance. |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:28) watch when valenti comes on it will be crystal clear, and when lessig comes on again its drivethru window |
| <chrisK> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:28) I think lessing's voice has less range |
| <chrisK> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:28) errgs "congestion" |
| <AaronK> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:29) hear hear! |
| <FranG> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:29) Don't blame the speaker for bad audio |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:29) clap clap |
| <KevinB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:29) yes, reasonable term is a must! |
| <JackW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:29) chris: it's the microphone or the guy on the mixer |
| <SteveM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:29) OK: 1. Reasonable, non-retroactive term of c/right. |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:29) why didnt he have his voice surgically altered to a higher squeakier pitch just for tonight |
| <chrisK> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:29) realaudio compressses audio that is "flatish" poorly.. it's a feature not a bug |
| <ErnestM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:29) Eldred v Reno -- why isn't retroactive extension per se unconstitutional? Why is it even a question? |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:29) chrisk 1 realnetworks 0 |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:31) not just a few [innovators]. have at you! |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:31) i hope so too jack |
| <JackW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:31) oops, publishers realize the existance of #bookwarez |
| <ErnestM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:32) I am not sure that Emmanuel Kant would support many of the movies that the MPAA makes |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:32) lol |
| <ErnestM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:32) Straw Man Alert!!!! Larry isn't calling for the abolishment of copyright. |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:32) dunh dunh dunh! |
| <ErnestM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:32) No reasonable person is. |
| <BrandiE> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:32) Retroactive extension is not per se unconstitutional because Clinton signed into law the Sonny Bono Copyright Term Extension Act. The act extended protection by 20 years for cultural works copyrighted after January 1, 1923 and works after 1978 get life + 70. |
| <ErnestM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:33) I understand, it was a rhetorical question. |
| <KevinB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:33) Did lessig ask to get rid of copyright? i didn't hear that. ;) |
| <BrandiE> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:33) Sorry Ernest-- |
| <AaronK> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:33) Maybe if the studios would stop making crap movies... |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:33) well, less than life + 1500 years? thats practically no copyright at all |
| <chrisK> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:33) even better someone could grab it from the production house BEFORE the premier.. |
| <ErnestM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:33) Wow, and the example Jack provides doesn't require DeCSS. |
| <KevinB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:33) Aaron: exactly! |
| <JackW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:33) I say we pay for the premieres of movies with the budget surplus </socialist comment> |
| <ErnestM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:33) Maybe many of the movies aren't making money because they are bad movies. |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:34) i say "Property is Theft" </anarchy> |
| <ErnestM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:34) Maybe other countries are wrong. Moreover, maybe we could pressure other countries to reduce copyright. |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:34) congest this dammit |
| <BrandiE> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:34) For what it's worth, I don't think the extension should be retroactive. |
| <ErnestM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:34) It is strange that the USA always pushes for higher terms. |
| <ErnestM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:35) However, Jack Valenti would never agree to try to push copyright to more limited terms. |
| <JackW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:35) that's his highest compliment? |
| <JackW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:35) cheap |
| <BrandiE> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:35) $$$$$ |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:35) what part was amusing? |
| <ErnestM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:35) Ask him? Jack should the USA try to get other countries to reduce copyrighted? |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:36) well, lets see... probably the same people who do it now |
| <ErnestM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:36) Not all copies are illegal ... not even of Esther Dyson's newsletter ... whether she likes it or not. |
| <ErnestM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:36) Straw Man Alert!! |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:36) because obviously they make billions and billions of dollars |
| <chrisK> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:37) define: straw man alert please? |
| <FranG> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:37) somebody should get a hook. He's gone on long enuf. |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:37) and that is clearly the criteria for being art... making billions of dollars |
| <KevinB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:37) In a paragraph please... |
| <ErnestM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:37) Sports are also monopolies. If there were not sports monopolies (regulated by Gov't) we wouldn't have superstar salaries. |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:37) yeah really, *GONG* |
| <FranG> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:37) glad to know he believes in Newton |
| <ErnestM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:37) Straw man ... arguing against a ridiculous argument that your opponent did not make. |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:37) why not, Jack? |
| <AaronK> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:37) We pay pro athletes a lot b/c they have very short careers, partly, and partly b/c the NFL etc. can charge ridiculous $$ for tickets. |
| <JackW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:38) Does he believe in Algebra too? |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:38) oh i see its a 'fact' |
| <BrandiE> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:38) Is anyone here in support of Valenti? |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:38) he believes in a 144-hour creation of the universe... so... |
| <BrandonS> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:38) Any aspiring court clerks in the chat room that want to be in charge of transcribing Lessig's words for the rest of us??? |
| <FranG> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:38) yeah, he did great work for Lyndon Johnson |
| <chrisK> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:38) I'm reserving judgement till the end.. |
| <BrandiE> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:39) Fair enough-- |
| <BenjaminH> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:39) Thank you, Larry, for reminding us that the Constitution wasn't framed based on continental European philosophy. |
| <CheckM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:39) the really should have done better sound |
| <JackW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:39) I don't like valenti, and think he's wrong on many points, but agree with the general premise for the most part... although I do enjoy violating copyrights :P |
| <CheckM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:39) it's totally bassy |
| <CheckM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:39) barely understandable and i come in with dsl |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:39) if they wont fix the levels, they should pitch shift his vouce up chipmunk style |
| <CheckM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:40) and that's harvard cyber law, goddamnit |
| <JackW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:40) mikew: yeah, they'll just go into their Harvard Law School audio closet and grab their pitch bender |
| <BrandiE> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:40) Thanks for your imput Jack---I just thought our discussion was getting a little one-sided. |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:40) take a deep breath of helium and say it again larry |
| <CheckM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:40) i hope they do a transcript |
| <chrisK> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:40) I realy hope this stays in some form of standard debate rather then monologs |
| <SteveM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:40) I guess Lessig wants to propose a "reasonable" term of copyright and he's not qualified to make a judgment as to this at all. |
| <JackW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:40) oh, so Jack can go on for a year and a day, but the good Lessig can't? |
| <CheckM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:40) and all that preregistration and cookie writing |
| <CheckM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:41) you couldn't enter without letting them write a cookie on your harddisk |
| <BrandiE> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:41) Sorry everyone---I'll pass on the message again that sound is still a problem. |
| <CheckM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:41) that just sucks |
| <CheckM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:41) that mike now is a lot better |
| <AaronK> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:41) thanks BrandiE, still seems like too much bass on Lessig's |
| <FranG> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:41) Steve, read "Code" ... I thought they were going to provide a transcript in "archives" |
| <JackW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:41) switch lessig's mic for valenti's for the second half :P |
| <BrandiE> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:41) I was just told that it's being worked on. |
| <SteveM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:41) Fran -- have read Code -- thanks. |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:41) thanks brandi |
| <ErnestM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:41) But Jack, should we move to try to move Europe toward less copyright? |
| <CheckM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:42) they should have put more energy into getting better sound than better picture |
| <ErnestM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:42) To my knowledge, the USA always supports more extensive copyright. |
| <CheckM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:42) nobody sees anything from that perspective anyway |
| <MelanieL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:42) Yes, thanks, BrandiE |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:42) they should have a video-free mp3 stream |
| <JackW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:42) check: I'm sure they didn't go "let's give em crappy audio"... it's a mistake :P |
| <CheckM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:42) mike, yes |
| <chrisK> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:42) mike: that would ROCK! |
| <CheckM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:42) always that damn real stuff |
| <SteveM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:43) Europe has far more design protection than USA (just as a counter example for Ernest) |
| <JackW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:43) shoutcast |
| <chrisK> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:43) mike unfortuanly shoutcast doesn't scale as well as realaudio server |
| <ErnestM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:43) Valenti can't respond to the retrospective question ... give the reasons!!! |
| <CheckM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:43) steve, patent laws are not so stupid than in the us (->amazon 1-click) |
| <MasialX> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:43) valenti = no-brainer repeating machine |
| <ErnestM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:43) Larry 1 Valenti 0 |
| <SarahL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:43) Does anyone know how rap and dance music artists compensate others for sampling their music? Or is thisa completely different issue? |
| <SteveM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:43) Don't jump around -- I agree patent laws are absurd. |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:44) maybe, but its f---ing harvard law. im sure they could come up with something... |
| <CheckM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:44) sarah, there's special markets groups in every bigger record label who deal with that |
| <chrisK> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:44) ohh throwing insults realy helps V |
| <JackW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:44) I wish I could hear the jokes so I was laughing at something funny |
| <CheckM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:44) sarah, they get permission and pay royalties. that's called sample clearance |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:44) humble folks like who?!?!?! |
| <ErnestM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:44) Valenti can't answer ... he just dodges and dances ... |
| <CheckM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:44) jack, right |
| <MasialX> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:45) what a dancer |
| <glennB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:45) what was lessig's one-liner just then? I couldn't make it out. |
| <LargeD> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:45) Valenti sounds like a bad used car salesman. |
| <JackW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:45) swooning the women |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:45) everything else is just OPEN |
| <chrisK> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:45) yea.. Jack doesn't debate well.. |
| <ErnestM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:45) Valenti left out a few examples, like boat hulls. |
| <CheckM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:45) i can't really follow with that poor sound |
| <MasialX> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:45) ohoh |
| <SteveM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:45) Whoops -- serious congestion problems |
| <MasialX> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:45) give me shoutcast stream |
| <chrisK> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:45) V seems to be to be good a monologs though :) |
| <CheckM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:46) harvard seems not to be able to affort enough bandwith |
| <JackW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:46) maybe we should give him Leno's job |
| <chrisK> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:46) hehe :) |
| <AaronK> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:46) too many Harvard students on Napster tonight, apparently ;-) |
| <JackW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:46) yeah, their endowment isn't quite large enough |
| <CheckM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:46) aaron :9 |
| <BrandiE> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:46) Thanks for the positive spin ChrisK. |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:46) well, in that case f--- all. here take my rights and fair use, in exchange for money. |
| <ErnestM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:46) We make a lot of money with movies. Good. Does that trump the Constitution? |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:46) ++ernest |
| <SarahL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:46) So, I don't understand how that method of using content and subsequent compensation is different from what we're talking about here, Lessig's argument about maintaining a rich public domain from which to create new works, I mean. |
| <ErnestM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:46) Woo hoo, we would probably make a lot more money without environmental protection laws too. |
| <Macki> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:47) hahahah |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:47) i love american films too. im going to see WarGames tonight |
| <JackW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:47) yay for no EPA! |
| <CheckM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:47) lawrence, we love you all, but you're barely understandable |
| <AaronK> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:47) Ernest - money /always/ seems to trump citizens' rights :-( |
| <Macki> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:47) look at valenti getting closer and closer to Larry's podium |
| <Macki> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:47) Valenti is practically at the moderator's podium |
| <SteveM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:47) A public domain would not require compensation. |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:47) selling crack would help our economy, so legalize ho! |
| <CheckM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:47) right now, there's no chance to buy neither movies nor music in a proper way on the internet |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:47) point check |
| <chrisK> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:47) ohh? |
| <JackW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:47) yay for legalization! |
| <CheckM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:47) studios control when their stuff comes to europe |
| <ErnestM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:47) Jack Valenti doesn't believe it is okay to download public domain music. |
| <chrisK> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:48) L 2 V 0 |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:48) he's gonna jump lessig if he shoots down one more MPAA point(less) |
| <robinD> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:48) it sounds like his mic. is covered. |
| <CheckM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:48) i wanna pay money for good products. but they don't give me productsd |
| <JackW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:48) robin: the gain is low, towards line rather than towards mic, on the mixer |
| <ErnestM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:49) Even if it isn't okay to download copyrighted music, is it okay for copyright holders to suppress technologies with substantial non-infringing uses (like Napster). |
| <CheckM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:49) why isn't their any tv station in the united states who broadcasts their syndicated stuff to the net? why? |
| <ErnestM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:49) The answer is NO. |
| <chrisK> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:49) check:fox news does |
| <robinD> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:49) i wonder how we can notify the engineer(s) of this. |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:49) well, and money for good products aside, i believe that price fixing / gouging is NOT allowed in the USofA |
| <CheckM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:49) jackw, we appreciate your work |
| <SteveM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:49) I don't think Lessig should rely on Sony. |
| <JackW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:49) robin: it's been done |
| <CheckM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:49) chris, yeah, but that's their content. the studio content isnt broadcasted at all |
| <MelanieL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:50) Can someone who can hear Lessig fill me in on his response to Valenti's question re: Napster downloads? |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:50) here it comes... |
| <BrandiE> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:50) Yes CheckM. |
| <CheckM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:50) checkm, like getting "Friends" on the internet. Why not? |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:50) recording industry would rather kill napster because they cant control it than come up with a legit solution |
| <KevinB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:50) gone... |
| <AdiK> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:51) Anyone in here in my MIS 411 class at the U of A |
| <FranG> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:51) Oh, that sounds good. Now I can't hear Jack, either. |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:51) big 5 want to re-establish control over their 90% stake in music on earth, why should law facilitate this? |
| <RyanL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:51) I don't understand what the difference is between MP3 sharing a Cassette Tapes? |
| <ErnestM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:51) Universal is after my.mp3.com not because they don't like it, but because THEY wanted to be the ones to do it. |
| <CheckM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:51) i hope they are taping this on proper video tape and get it encoded properly! |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:51) because they RIAA gets money from selling tapes |
| <CheckM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:51) oh, yeah, dr. kissinger |
| <SarahL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:51) I wish they would talk more about how we might be able to bridge and make a balance between this control/lack of control. That's something that's quite difficult to answer. We know that the issue is control/lack of control. |
| <JackW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:51) mikew: blank tapes? |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:52) as does napster |
| <ErnestM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:52) Jack knows what the Supreme Court said, because they rejected his arguments ... to Jack's benefit, of course. |
| <RyanL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:52) No, I mean coping CD/Tapes to blank tapes and giving them to friends--Napster |
| <CheckM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:52) ryan, the problem with napster is, it's to easy |
| <SteveM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:52) I get the feeling that this is insincere posturing by Lessig. |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:52) who sells tapes? the same multinationals who sell records. (there are exceptions yes but still) |
| <AnthonyM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:52) Who is speaking now? |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:52) valenti |
| <JackW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:52) check: it's easier to copy to a tape than to download an mp3, change it to .wav, and burn it |
| <BrandiE> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:52) Sarah, what are your thoughts on control? Do you think technology is the only way control can really be achieved (instead of legislation)? |
| <ErnestM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:52) The Supreme Court inherently accepted not only time-shifting, but also format shift. After all videotape is a different format than broadcast. |
| <JackW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:53) (ignore the win cdr software for win users) |
| <RyanL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:53) I guess that you are right, but the Music Industry should have realized this was going to happen |
| <BenW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:53) piracy is selling someone elses work as if you own it. Something the recording industry has done for years. |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:53) it is easier to just go into a crappy best buy and jack sh*t, but that isnt relevant to CONTROLLING the uses |
| <chrisK> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:53) a hug? |
| <JackW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:53) Ben: the recording industry does own it... |
| <SarahL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:53) It seems to be. How could you send cops into the homes of everyone who's illegally downloaded music? |
| <chrisK> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:53) whats wrong with me sharing music I produce over napster? |
| <ErnestM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:54) You might have to be a MPAA executive to understand those aspects. |
| <BenW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:54) jack: art is not work for hire |
| <RyanL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:54) Technology will NEVER win...I could personally find a way to copy music if I wanted easily |
| <BenW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:54) jack as decided in supreme court last year |
| <BrandiE> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:54) Ben that's true, but at least the recording industry has invested money to create the product--I agree with Jack, they do own it. |
| <Klerck> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:54) Hello! |
| <SarahL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:54) Nothing, but what happens when you want to get paid for it? |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:54) thats easy, sarah, just swear the entire population into some law enforcement position or other |
| <AdamL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:54) It's the users' fault that they are abusing napster, not napster's fault. |
| <JackW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:54) in my studio, when an act records their work on my equipment, I own the recordings |
| <SarahL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:54) Heh |
| <RyanL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:54) I would just make a new Encoding and screw RIAA or whatever |
| <AdamL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:54) Napster never came out and said "We started this service to give out pirated music" |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:54) i have found so much stuff on Napster that i would NEVER find in a million billion years at the world's largest record store |
| <AdamL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:55) nor does napster harbor any pirated music |
| <Klerck> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:55) hahaha this is hilarious! |
| <JackW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:55) is there an expected elapsed time for this? |
| <BrandiE> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:55) Technology could be used to make sure that the work cannot pirated and therefore insure that the work is paid for. |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:55) go back to your own podium you monopolizing bastard |
| <alexanderR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:55) How about lowering the industry standarprice on Digital media, to make it easier for the average joe to own an actual copy than to learn how to download one? |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:55) why is valenti in the center now? |
| <RyanL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:55) You cannot outsmart everyone with technology...Only the dumb ones |
| <ErnestM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:55) BrandiE -- but such technology might also eliminate fair use. is that okay? |
| <AdamL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:56) There's a hole through every wall |
| <JackW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:56) brandi: technology can be used to insure that it cannot be pirated, like with DeCSS, right? |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:56) but smart people always 'fix' the 'technology' that outsmarts people and you end up with napster |
| <joeS> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:56) blank tapes can also elimate fair use |
| <AdamL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:56) There's always a way around it, and if it's in great demand, like music is, people will find a way |
| <Klerck> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:56) Who is Jack Valenti?? what's going on here |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:56) if you are serious, klerck, read the bios. |
| <JackW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:56) see the lower right frame klerck |
| <Klerck> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:56) I'm just kidding |
| <Klerck> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:56) Don't have a heart attack |
| <BenW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:56) intellectual property... how blasphemous and narrow minded to think you can own intellect. |
| <ChristopherL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:56) Technology is inherently an enabler; there is always a disabler, one way or another. |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:57) hence the condition if... |
| <RyanL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:57) DeCSS was put into place to make the industry rich by preventing different countries from sharing technology |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:57) Property is Theft! |
| <CheckM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:57) what does valenti have for a shirt? |
| <CheckM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:57) is it yellow? |
| <JackW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:57) he's superfly |
| <RyanL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:57) Oops, DeCSS cracked CSS, sorry |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:57) what a cop out |
| <CheckM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:57) oh my god, he's so funny |
| <CheckM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:57) lawrence should run around too |
| <AnthonyM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:58) He did not answer the question ... |
| <CheckM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:58) he would look a lot better |
| <JackW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:58) shiznit, now I'm down to 25.5kbps |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:58) it should be illegal to listen to recordings i have purchased at 200% speed, even if those chipmunk voices are oh so funny |
| <AaronK> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:58) Good idea, Jack, let's blindly follow what the courts say without ever thinking for ourselves. |
| <John_Romero> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:58) I've got 80kbps |
| <CheckM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:58) valenti works like a lawyer in court, trying to get to the jury |
| <BrandiE> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:58) I agree that there's always a way to get around technology, but it could be effective for the majority of users. I definitely don't condone getting rid of fair use. There are ways in which a user could self-identify and give the purpose--perhaps they would be given a way to have access to only a portion of the material. |
| <SteveM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:58) Lessig did not address the question of what *he* feels about Napster either. They're both dancing. |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:58) aaron: he doesn't support that idea. he only agreees with the courts when the have been purchased by his organization |
| <RyanL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:58) You can't control everyone all of the time... |
| <CheckM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:58) steve, valenti is *actual* dancing |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:59) since there is piracy, fair use should be abolished |
| <KyleS> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:59) hackers will break down the "molecular design"? |
| <John_Romero> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:59) Valenti is doing a tango |
| <CheckM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:59) 99 percent are honest? |
| <chrisK> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:59) now I see why they included video.. they knew he would dance :) |
| <CheckM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:59) oh my god, the mpaa is very trusting |
| <ErnestM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:59) BrandiE - self -identify, give up your anonymity ... who decides what is fair use (if the company disagrees with you, do you go to court? Wasn't fair use developed to prevent many court cases?)>_ |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:59) valenti has to go to the bathroom |
| <SnarlyH> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:59) I wish I could see the video on my Mac...ironic that this is a 'motion picture' topic. |
| <RyanL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:59) How do you know I don't own a copy of the CD at both ends of the Internet...Like downloading from home to work through Napster? |
| <CR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:59) 99% honest? ;) |
| <AnthonyM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 19:59) When technology demands the evolution of an industry , shouldn't the court encourage this? |
| <John_Romero> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:00) That's what you get for using a Mac |
| <BrandiE> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:00) Valid point, so do you have any suggestions? |
| <CheckM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:00) valenti owns the room |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:00) good point ryan i bought three copies of every cd i own |
| <CheckM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:00) guess he took some of his mba friends with him |
| <AaronK> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:00) Anthony - I don't think the courts should encourage or discourage it, they should let the "market" decide what the companies have to do in order to survive. |
| <chrisK> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:00) goldstien! |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:00) clap clap |
| <ErnestM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:00) Plenty, this isn't the forum though. |
| <alexanderR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:00) yes the technology should be encouraged, but the artists must be protected |
| <mary> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:01) everybody rips off artists. |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:01) is his name really emmanuel goldstein? from his parents? or legally changed? or just a pseudonym? |
| <joeS> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:01) espically teh Mpaa |
| <RyanL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:01) What this is is a strong arm tactic by big money to prevent people from spreading music around the world and not giving big money the profits they want |
| <KyleS> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:01) his name is eric corley. |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:01) hence starving artists |
| <chrisK> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:01) eric croly(sic) is his real name |
| <chrisK> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:01) thanks kyle |
| <KyleS> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:01) np ;) |
| <CheckM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:01) mike, it's from orwells "1984". dont you read books in american schools? |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:01) thank you |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:01) yes i know that, hence my question |
| <ChristopherL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:01) How is the RIAA or the MPAA protecting the artists, when many could (and do) make more money producing and marketing their works themselves? |
| <ErnestM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:01) According to the MPAA, a thief is someone who watches their lawfully acquired DVD with DeCSS. |
| <KyleS> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:01) check: i think he got that ;P |
| <BenW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:02) the artists are already protected, this is about protecting the interrests of record labels |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:02) although no, that was not read in my school ) |
| <CheckM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:02) kyle, well, well ;-) |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:02) go americia! |
| <BenW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:02) it is too easy now for an artist to circumvent the industry |
| <CheckM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:02) mike, he took it as a name, i guess. but it's from 1984 |
| <KyleS> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:02) that was a long freakin question. |
| <alexanderR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:02) what do you mean that the artists are protected |
| <CheckM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:02) mike, no? |
| <RyanL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:02) Why would you need a record label when you could record your own music and sell it on the Internet for %100 profit? That's why big money is pissed |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:02) right i was just wondering if it was legally changed or just his pseudonym thank you all |
| <BenW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:03) Ryan: EXACTLY! |
| <mary> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:03) it's too easy for an artist to circumvent the industry? |
| <chrisK> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:03) LOL |
| <CheckM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:03) mike checkout 2600.com |
| <AlbertM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:03) the MPAA has no argument against the criticisms of the DMCA |
| <Macki> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:03) argh |
| <AndyR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:03) hello folks |
| <Macki> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:03) our t1 is down |
| <LaurenceB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:03) anyone else having trouble connecting to the screen |
| <chrisK> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:03) threw fair use out the window? |
| <chrisK> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:03) what! |
| <KyleS> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:03) actually valenti has lots of votes in congress :) |
| <ChristopherL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:03) I'm having feed probs, yeah |
| <RyanL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:03) Thanks...I think that this whole issue is funny...People are going to do what they want and the industry will at some point have to change |
| <vectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:04) KyleS: well yeah, we americans have the best politicans money can buy. |
| <FoxF> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:04) server's at capacity |
| <KyleS> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:04) lol |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:04) because larry, thats where my personal salary comes from - valenti |
| <AlbertM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:04) the DMCA gives large corporations ridiculous amounts of power over individuals |
| <mary> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:04) ican't see the video, I only hear the talk |
| <CheckM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:04) mike, ya with the mpaa? |
| <RyanL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:04) AlbertM: You do vote right? |
| <KyleS> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:04) who is the person asking this question |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:04) but its the law , al, and the law is always right |
| <AlbertM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:04) well I will this year |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:04) no i'm with sarcasm anonymous sorry |
| <AlbertM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:04) I just turned 18 yesterday |
| <BillG> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:04) The law isn't always right, it's simply what lawmakers have decided on, and law-enforcement will enforce. |
| <AaronK> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:04) kyle - emmanuel goldstein, from 2600 |
| <AnthonyM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:04) You know, we are watching history in the making. |
| <KyleS> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:05) oh it is? |
| <KyleS> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:05) cool |
| <vectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:05) mikeW: slavery used to be the law. Does that make it right? |
| <alexanderR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:05) I think that the big money will flood the internet with corupted coppies of mp3s, to spread viruses to napster users |
| <CheckM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:05) anyone from mpaa here, or related orgs? |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:05) Jack Valenti for President! |
| <RyanL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:05) alexander: People aren't that dumb |
| <BrandiE> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:05) Happy belated birthday Albert---it's mine today! |
| <alexanderR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:05) hopefully not ofcourse |
| <JohnW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:05) Ttest |
| <CheckM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:05) alex, you don't get viruses by mp3. but things that don't work can be flooded. that's pretty creative. barenaked ladies did so |
| <KevinB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:05) alexander: not a good way to treat potential customers. |
| <JohnW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:05) ok there we go |
| <RyanL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:05) Antivirus makers would make $$$ on that moronic move |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:05) ok i will be more obvious in the future. i hate hate HATE the DMCA ok? |
| <JohnW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:05) I cant see the box o type in |
| <AlbertM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:05) MPAA well the LAW says you can't use media that you paid for except in the way we allow you to, and the law must be followed (especially since we paid a hell of a lot to get it passed), so you're wrong |
| <KyleS> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:06) how can anyone take valenti serious? he comes off as a complete moron |
| <alexanderR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:06) I aggree but I wouldn't put it past them |
| <chrisK> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:06) I would love to see emanual and jack having lunch together :) |
| <CheckM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:06) lawrence is really cute. but nobody can understand him, because the sound is so crappy. |
| <KyleS> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:06) ya check |
| <JohnW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:06) what server is this |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:06) i think this entire debate should have been clothing-optional |
| <AlbertM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:06) valenti is apparently experienced at getting people to like him with stupid laugh-inducing statements |
| <ErnestM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:06) Unauthorized use!?!? That is ridiculous! Some uses may be controlled ... other uses may NEVER be controlled. Jack Valenti apparently believes that all uses may be controlled. Fair use may be eliminated according to Jack Valenti. |
| <vectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:06) bcis.law.harvard.edu:6667 |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:07) fair use MUST be eliminated according etc... |
| <chrisK> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:07) ergs congestion! |
| <ErnestM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:07) Ask Jack if fair use may be eliminated. |
| <vectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:07) ErnestM: You have the right to make fair use but not to gain access to the work to use it. ;) |
| <CheckM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:07) what those guys want is the following: now when somebody sees a movie and how often |
| <BenW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:07) i am going to write a song, but if you listen to it in the nude i will sue you! |
| <eclectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:07) valenti is very smooth talker |
| <AlbertM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:07) ask Jack: "If I pay money to buy a legit copy of a DVD, should I be allowed to watch it?" |
| <NobO> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:07) Allo. |
| <LaurenceB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:07) we all know what he'll say |
| <RyanL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:07) I can't wait until my CD player contacts the Government to let me know if I have listened to my OWN music too much for my own good. And then destroy the copy for me. |
| <AnthonyM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:07) I agree BenW .. .thats what this is implying. That sucks!! |
| <SteveM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:07) I don't think Lessig has proposed any alternative. |
| <KyleS> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:08) what do you buy when you buy a DVD... |
| <LaurenceB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:08) he's not the guy who needs to be convinced to change his view |
| <ErnestM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:08) Ask Jack Valenti if fair use may be eliminated by technological means! |
| <NobO> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:08) I can't wait to watch the webcast... |
| <RyanL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:08) CONTROL RULES!!! |
| <BrandiE> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:08) Steve M, I agree with you. |
| <KyleS> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:08) the physical media? what data? |
| <vectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:08) KyleS: the media. |
| <MPAAS> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:08) hey what plugin do i need to see the video? |
| <vectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:08) MPAAS: realaudio. :\ |
| <AlbertM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:08) if you don't have a DVD player that was licensed by the MPAA you can't watch it (without DeCSS) |
| <NobO> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:08) Whoooo I got in! |
| <SteveM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:08) Given that DMCA is the law, Lessig has to be the one giving some good proposals. |
| <MPAAS> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:08) damn |
| <RobU> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:08) RyanL - Actually, they're working on stuff like that now. CD's that are time-limited. You buy it, but after so many listens it dies. Neat huh? We pay for stuff to fall apart. Oh joy. ;-( |
| <ErnestM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:08) 95,000 members of the Screen Actors Guild (80% of whom are unemployed at any one time). |
| <LaurenceB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:08) i think jacks problem is that he doesn't understand what is going on. He just said a bit ago that he could fast forward through commercials |
| <BenW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:08) property is disappearing, everything is goijng to be 'leased' account |
| <chrisK> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:08) Why can't I watch my DVDs on my linux box! |
| <vectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:08) The license to view the data is in the player, all you get with the DVD is the media. |
| <LaurenceB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:08) that's just not true under certain circumstances |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:08) anyone who masturbates to MPAA films needs to pay a fee of $5000 US lest they be sued for infringing use |
| <AlbertM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:08) if you want to watch the DVD while watching linux you can't |
| <ErnestM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:08) I am sure that if Hollywood makes more money, they money goes right to the SAG. |
| <demonolidgy> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:08) chrisK: you can |
| <AlbertM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:09) if you wan't to watch a DVD in a country other than the one you bought it in you can't |
| <demonolidgy> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:09) Just have to get the right program |
| <SteveM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:09) Rob -- we'll pay LESS for the stuff that falls apart. |
| <vectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:09) AlbertM: why watch linux? :o |
| <LaurenceB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:09) u could contract to only allow the song listened to with clothing, but that shouldnt make it illegal to tell people how to take their clothes off |
| <AlbertM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:09) well SHOULD you be able to? |
| <demonolidgy> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:09) Linux is awsome |
| <NathanH> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:09) Lessig is a master of the circular argument. |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:09) Point: Lessig |
| <RyanL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:09) How about FingerPrint identification for DVD and CD purchase? |
| <RyanL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:09) And viewing? |
| <KyleS> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:09) is anyone in cali? want to go shoot valenti for me? |
| <BenW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:09) remember DivX? People hate the concept of not 'owning' their property |
| <vectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:09) RyanL: ssh, don't give them any ideas. |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:09) i dont think he's in cali right now |
| <KyleS> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:10) oh ya they're in harvard right |
| <RyanL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:10) vectro: Yeah, you're right |
| <vectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:10) KyleS: I don't think that would help. :\ he's just a figurehead. |
| <SteveM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:10) If you get a certain license on a DVD when you buy it and agree to the license then tough shit -- pay for it what you want; later don't cry like a baby. |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:10) although ive been wrong before |
| <RobU> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:10) SteveM - Yes, we'll pay less. But what happens if I really like it? What if I really like that song. Or that movie. So I watch it and listen to it like many times. All of a sudden I go and put it in my player and it doesn't work. I now have to go and pay yet another $15.00 for another copy to get my next 5 listens? |
| <BrandiE> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:10) Now, now Kyle. |
| <demonolidgy> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:10) ahh someone would break that also RyanL |
| <vectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:10) SteveM: 1) the license is implied, so it's pre-agreed to for your convience. ;) |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:10) no no shoot like shoot a movie. its california |
| <SteveM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:10) Yes ROb -- that's called the freedom of K. |
| <RyanL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:10) true |
| <vectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:10) SteveM: 2) you get the license with the player, not the medai. |
| <LaurenceB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:10) if you are stupid enough to agree to some dumbass license, then u are stuck, but a) i have never seen a license on a dvd stating I can |
| <ChristopherL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:10) Inherently, any technology which an industry uses to try to control a product in the hands of the consumers can and will be circumvented, and enforcement will be infeasible (see: the war on drugs) |
| <AlbertM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:10) if I publish a book online with backwards text, it is illegal for you to read it using a mirror unless you buy the mirror from me |
| <LaurenceB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:10) only use it under certain circumstances |
| <CheckM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:11) Kids, just read on Slashdot: "It's actually on-going right now, though the quality of the webcast is terrible" |
| <BenW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:11) we had a war on drugs and drugs won. |
| <vectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:11) AlbertM: only if it "effectively" protects access. |
| <CheckM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:11) right on |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:11) if you publish a book with backwards text, i'm going to cry |
| <BrandiE> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:11) Good point Albert. |
| <RobU> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:11) Steve - But where's the freedom? They're telling me that something that I bought and paied for can only be used a handfull of times. How would you like your car to do that? You can use it five times and then you have to spend another $14,000 for a new car. How would that make you feel? |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:11) good point ben |
| <LaurenceB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:11) what about digital convergence |
| <RyanL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:11) This is just like the Porn thing on the Internet. Thr Gov. tried to outlaw it here in the US, so smart people moved their servers over to South Africa or whatever to say "F*uck You US Law"...I agree with them |
| <demonolidgy> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:11) Media will always be something that is investigated and hacked its for the information thats all |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:11) war on freedom, now? |
| <AlbertM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:11) ok how about this |
| <KyleS> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:11) is it rebuffering for you guys too or is it my crappy uva conection that's at fault? |
| <LaurenceB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:11) they're currently trying to claim XOR as their intellectual property |
| <michaelM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:11) CheckM -- the Lessig/Valenti thing is on Slashdot? |
| <MPAAS> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:11) well, when you lease you are limitted to miles...... |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:11) its crappy |
| <NobO> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:11) Yes, it is. |
| <NobO> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:11) On Slashdot. |
| <MPAAS> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:12) are we leasing music? |
| <AlbertM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:12) suppose they make an encryption scheme that is based on some theorem of mathematics to make it difficult to ciircumvent |
| <BenW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:12) yeah, i got here from slashdot |
| <NobO> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:12) That's why there's millions of people here. |
| <SteveM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:12) Rob: BUT you knew that when you bought it. Pay less for it if you want. RIght? |
| <eclectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:12) forever-day!! great he mentioned that quote!! |
| <vectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:12) LaurenceB: no, that's DC |
| <vectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:12) AlbertM: the DMCA has an exception for research. |
| <RyanL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:12) AlbertM: Then don't use it |
| <AlbertM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:12) then some mathematician makes a discovery that enables the protection to be easily bypassed |
| <AnthonyM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:12) Limited ... should have be be a percentage of average life-span. |
| <AlbertM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:12) the mathematician is now vulnerable to legal retribution |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:12) I got a cuecat in the mail, unsolicited, no license shrinkwrap or otherwise, no shrinkwrap at all for that matter, just one piece of clear tape between it and the outside world |
| <BenW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:12) antyone want to help me hack into his powerpoint? |
| <CheckM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:12) sorry, how do we ask questions?! |
| <ChristopherL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:12) In the same country, perhaps. |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:13) hahaha im rich and i love it! -valenti |
| <AlbertM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:13) and it would be illegal to use his discovery |
| <CheckM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:13) haha |
| <ChristopherL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:13) But a swede? |
| <NobO> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:13) Hahaha. |
| <demonolidgy> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:13) Thats wrong hes being punished for his discovery and his knowledge |
| <LaurenceB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:13) vectro: DC? didnt i say that? |
| <GrepN> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:13) whats up with the server full? |
| <RyanL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:13) AlbertM: That's not true...Math is a science, not a politic |
| <vectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:13) mikeW: the :cue:cat has :colon :cancer. Watch out or you might get infected. |
| <AndyR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:13) he is great at chummin with the audience. he has them drooling |
| <michaelM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:13) my webcast isn't working :( |
| <AndyR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:13) valenti that is |
| <LaurenceB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:13) vectro: ??? |
| <vectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:13) LaurenceB: sorry, thought you were talking about MPAA. My bad. |
| <jN> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:13) grepn: was posted on slashdot.org |
| <LaurenceB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:13) vectro: nope |
| <CheckM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:13) HOW DO WE ASK QUESTIONS?! |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:13) ill be :careful. wouldnt want to :catch :cold or anything |
| <MPAAS> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:13) whats going on |
| <LaurenceB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:13) vectro: but it's all the same law |
| <MPAAS> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:13) i am still downloading realplayer |
| <AndyR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:13) do you suppose congress is just as easy to manipulate? |
| <AlbertM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:13) no, this mathematical discovery can be used to *circumvent a technological protection mechamism". it is illegal under the DMCA |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:14) by ending sentences with a '?' you designate them as questions |
| <demonolidgy> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:14) heh |
| <AlbertM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:14) it is also illegal to disseminate information about it |
| <vectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:14) LaurenceB: no, DC has no leg to stand on. There's no copyright work being protected, so DMCA dosen't apply. |
| <ChristopherL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:14) Albert, than's only true in the US! |
| <RobU> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:14) Steve - Perhaps. But think of the environmental issues with that throw away culture too. We already have landfills filled with stuff that shouldn't be there. Imagine when we get time relased CD's into the works, or hell time released anything. When it stops working, you rush out and buy a new one. Let's just fill up that landfill. But that's not what this is about at all. What it's about is that they're trying to stop people from using what they've legally paid for in whatever way they |
| <ChristopherL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:14) What about a Swede mathematician? |
| <ErnestM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:14) Fair Use must be a First Amendment Right! Not merely a defense, else it is meaningless. |
| <eclectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:14) you can drive a mac truck thru the DMCA if you wanted |
| <KyleS> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:14) it's too bad lessig's mike sucks.. maybe the mpaa people did that to make valenti seem cooler. |
| <vectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:14) AlbertM: no, the DMCA has an exception for encryption research. |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:14) i hope you know we will all be arrested for chatting about a webcast without signed permission from the Lord God |
| <BrandiE> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:14) To ask questions, click on the ask questions link in the lower right hand corner. |
| <demonolidgy> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:14) Good point RobU |
| <ErnestM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:14) Go Eldred! |
| <LaurenceB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:14) the problem with the dmca is that it basically lets you take any technology, use it to obscure your copyrighted material, and then claim that technology as proprietary and illegal |
| <ChristopherL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:14) Is Sweden expected to extradite or prosecute for a law they have no comparison to? |
| <AlbertM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:15) the exception covers copying, not access |
| <chrisK> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:15) wonder if anyone thought of putting decss_decode up and asks why this wrong to post? |
| <MPAAS> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:15) how long is this thing going on |
| <vectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:15) LaurenceB: pretty close. |
| <MPAAS> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:15) i am gonna hop on the T |
| <AlbertM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:15) i can reverse engineer something to make a copy of it |
| <ChrisS> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:15) Will watermarks have an expiry system built into them, so that when the copyright expires, people can use them under the 'fair use' standards? |
| <AlbertM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:15) just not to access it |
| <LaurenceB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:15) vectro: I dont really see the cuecat issue as being all that different |
| <vectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:15) I'm very tempted to manufacture some DVDs and then sue the MPAA for circumventing my encryption. |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:15) and sued him? |
| <eclectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:15) do that-sombody post the DeCSS as a question!!!!! |
| <LaurenceB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:15) they have just as big a leg to stand on as MPAA |
| <vectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:15) ChrisS: not the way they are done in SDMI. |
| <AlbertM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:15) i want to ask valenti a question, will that be possible? |
| <vectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:16) LaurenceB: no, the MPAA has the DMCA. |
| <chrisK> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:16) click on "ask a question" |
| <KyleS> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:16) albert: i dont think so. |
| <LaurenceB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:16) so does DC |
| <vectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:16) LaurenceB: which is a Bad Law. |
| <LaurenceB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:16) that's what they've been claiming too |
| <vectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:16) LaurenceB: what copyrighted work is DC's "encryption" violating? |
| <LaurenceB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:16) digital convergence is also claiming the dmca |
| <LaurenceB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:16) their encryption isnt violating anything, they're not suing themselves |
| <RobU> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:16) ChrisS - Watermarks are designed from the get-go to remove your fair-use rights. Sure they talk all poetic about how they'll not mess with fair use. But let's face it, they want to get you to pay for EVERY time that you listen/watch/use whatever you've bought. It's not in their best interests to disable watermarking. |
| <LaurenceB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:17) they claim the design of the cuecat, as well as the data contained in a scan, is proprietary, insofar as it returns things in a format they claim to have invented |
| <AndyR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:17) roar! |
| <vectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:17) LaurenceB: the DMCA only applies to a scheme that "protects access to a copyrighted work". DC can't invoke it because there's no copyrighted work. |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:17) save me lawyer! |
| <AndyR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:17) don't piss jack off |
| <KyleS> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:17) hahaha he's freaking out |
| <eclectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:17) Digital Convergence doesn't have standing until they mention what patent |
| <AlbertM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:17) shut up you idiot jack |
| <RyanL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:17) The DMCA was a group of computer ignorant lawmakers passing legislation because the industry made sure they didn't know what the hell they were doing. If I was the RIAA I would have done the same thing. Ever get money from your Mom for ummmm...lunch (cigarettes) |
| <eclectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:17) is infringed |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:17) oh funny, he talked about napster for an hour earlier today |
| <vectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:17) LaurenceB: DC has never invoked the DMCA. They just rail on about their "intellectual property". |
| <LaurenceB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:17) it's not a patent claim |
| <KyleS> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:17) lol i remember that mike |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:17) i didnt realize that was about f---ing movies |
| <AndyR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:17) "naughty" |
| <vectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:18) LaurenceB: actually, there is a patent on connecting a barcode scanner to a network. |
| <KyleS> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:18) he is eager to bring that up when talking about "all the legal decisions" |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:18) so spank me jack, im naughty |
| <KyleS> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:18) my.mp3, "napstah", etc |
| <SteveM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:18) ROb --- I didn't catch the last part of your response. |
| <LaurenceB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:18) whose patent is that vector |
| <eclectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:18) Digital Convergence has a "patent pending" see my slashdot post |
| <KyleS> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:18) goldstein should have introduced himself as "hey -i'm the guy you sued" |
| <vectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:18) LaurenceB: just a sec I'll look it up. |
| <AndyR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:18) why the fuck are we and congress listening to this fool jack? he is obviously full of it. |
| <MPAAS> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:18) LOL |
| <RyanL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:19) So is Congress |
| <chrisK> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:19) who is currently asking the question? |
| <KyleS> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:19) lol ryan |
| <AlbertM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:19) andyr, you just answered your question =) |
| <RobU> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:19) What the heck is the question anyways? |
| <ShawnX> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:19) so, where is he |
| <FranG> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:19) I give up, is Jack answering a question? |
| <AlbertM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:19) he CAN'T answer the question |
| <eclectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:19) yeah, he's full of millions of dollars to sue your ass off if you want to play DVDs on linux |
| <NobO> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:19) Jack is opposed to moral rights? |
| <KyleS> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:19) what the fuck is he talking about anyway hehe |
| <AndyR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:19) he is full of shit |
| <demonolidgy> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:19) What are they using to stream |
| <demonolidgy> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:19) ? |
| <CR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:19) What was the reply to "Michael Kroposki: Is DMCA unconstitutional because it allows authors to control their works via federal statute for unlimited times?" -- I lost the feed... |
| <AndyR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:19) dude |
| <vectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:19) LaurenceB: http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=00/09/28/1351255&cid=154 |
| <MPAAS> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:20) anyone watching the simpsons....damn repeat |
| <MPAAS> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:20) thanks vecto |
| <AndyR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:20) did anyone listen to the DeCSS deposition? |
| <mary> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:20) checkm look on yer screen under instructions |
| <ShawnX> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:20) Where is Jack |
| <demonolidgy> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:20) no but I should be MPAAS |
| <RobU> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:20) AlbertM - Yeah, he's making the whole Politco speech. ;-) I'm talking but I can't figure out what I'm supposed to say so I'm goning to say a bunch of crap until everyone gets bored and says next question. ;-) |
| <MPAAS> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:20) lol |
| <KyleS> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:20) andy: i read it, but i didn't listen to it |
| <AndyR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:20) jack sounded like he'd been drugged |
| <LaurenceB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:20) vector: symbol and others can demonstrate prior art up the wazoo, it wont stand |
| <ShawnX> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:20) is he even on the irc channel? |
| <LaurenceB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:20) but that's not really my point |
| <vectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:20) LaurenceB: I know. |
| <KyleS> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:20) andy: wasn't it surprising how much he didn't know |
| <AlbertM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:20) heh yep robu |
| <MPAAS> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:21) applet changed my name from MPAASucks to MPAAS |
| <AlbertM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:21) is the audience mostly general public or mostly harvard students? |
| <robinD> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:21) i thought this would be a moral/ethical discussion, all jack is doing is citing the law and saying that we should follow the law. |
| <vectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:21) LaurenceB: but they can license it to you for less than the cost of a lawsuit, so it won't be challenged. |
| <RobU> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:21) Anyone listen to the DECSS song? The one with the guy with the acoustic guitar? Great tune. ;-) |
| <eclectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:21) yeah MPAAS, it saved you from being sued |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:21) hmm, movie industry can do no evil? what about Jean Claude van Damme? |
| <KyleS> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:21) i tihnk if there were harvard law school students there they would be booing him hehe |
| <LaurenceB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:21) vectro: hopefully they'll get dumb and sue someone like symbol |
| <glennB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:21) Where to find the DeCSS song? |
| <MPAAS> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:21) anyone hear the Naptillica song? |
| <AndyR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:21) if i had given that deposition in exactly the same way, i would have been arrested for contempt of court |
| <chrisK> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:21) I liked the dramatic reading of decss better :) |
| <BrandiE> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:21) Albert, I think the audience is mostly Harvard students. |
| <vectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:21) robinD: of course you should follow the law. Even contemplating otherwise would be crimethink. |
| <demonolidgy> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:22) Is the server still full for the stream? |
| <vectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:22) LaurenceB: mabye. NeoMedia is an expert at patenting obvious things. |
| <AndyR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:22) he is after ronald regan's heart for details in deposition |
| <KyleS> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:22) vectro: hehehehe |
| <JonathanC> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:22) Yeah. It's still full. |
| <AlbertM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:22) they are? then why are they laughing at valenti's drivel? |
| <LaurenceB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:22) vectro: i dont think it takes a lawsuit, though i'm not sure what the procedure is to have a patent overturned |
| <demonolidgy> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:22) Dope |
| <robinD> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:22) vectro, heh. |
| <LaurenceB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:22) vectro: just dont get any ideas, i'm patenting the business method of patenting obvious things via taking advantage of the uspto's shortcomings |
| <eclectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:22) It's good to be polite to him here, so he will debate in the future |
| <KyleS> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:23) so why cant i use napster at u indiana if that was true? |
| <vectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:23) LaurenceB: I've discussed this with my dad, a lawyer. You can request the patent office to review a patent if you have new evidence, otherwise you have to go to court. And the patent office RARELY overturns issued patents. |
| <AlbertM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:23) i'm going to ask valenti my mathematician question |
| <LaurenceB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:23) i say go for it |
| <eclectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:23) Valenti is pretty brave, got to hand it to him |
| <KevinB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:23) Yeah, Blockbuster has every movie in the world... |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:23) shut up valenti. thats not the question. |
| <LaurenceB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:23) i dont see why we cant clean room decss type things |
| <KyleS> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:24) what an idiot. the movie playing in theaters arent the ones that have anything to do with decss |
| <LaurenceB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:24) we have someone figure out how it works without actually building a device or program |
| <BrandiE> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:24) I agree eclectro. |
| <LaurenceB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:24) and then have someone else write the code |
| <LaurenceB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:24) it's a pita, and the law is still fundamentally unjust |
| <vectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:24) A business method whereby the corporation patents methods in common use, and then licenses these patents to individuals and corporations already using said methods, at a fee not exceeding the cost of a lawsuit to challenge said patent. |
| <chrisK> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:24) I'm just very temted to ask <insert decss_decode> and ask if he belives if it is wrong for me to ask a question about this code including the code in the question? |
| <LaurenceB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:24) but it would be a workaround |
| <michaelM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:24) how do our questions show up there -- on an overhead, or does someone read them? |
| <ErnestM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:24) Here is an example. Can you copy part of a DVD to put up on your movie review website? |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:24) deCSS allows me to break into film distributors and steal prints of movies in theaters, so take that. |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:25) our questions dont show up there, dont be silly |
| <ErnestM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:25) According to Jack, NO! You may not quote from a DVD to put on your movie review website. |
| <vectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:25) ErnestM: yes, but you can't break the encryption to do so. |
| <eclectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:25) The thing we need to learn from this is that there is NO changing of the MPAA's mind on any issue that might short them a nickel |
| <LaurenceB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:25) yo vectro be quiet, that paragraph up a bit violates my patent pending technology |
| <AndyR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:25) his whole answer to any arguement is that "IT's LAW!" he doesn't admit that a law can be wrong |
| <LaurenceB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:25) i wonder if we could patent the concept of patent |
| <vectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:25) hehe |
| <LaurenceB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:25) now that would be something |
| <RyanL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:25) Hello, sorry...I just got booted by accident |
| <JimH> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:25) Video Server to busy for me to listen |
| <JoshC> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:25) Ok... so what would stop me from making a byte for byte copy of the DVD without DECSS? |
| <RobU> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:25) Listen to the deCSS descramble song. Make sure you get the higher quality version at the bottom of the page. http://www.joeysmith.com/~jwecker/ |
| <vectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:25) mabye not, but you could probably patent patenting obvious things. |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:25) erin brockovich? in what class? bad movies starring julia roberts? |
| <demonolidgy> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:26) God I wish I could hear the moron |
| <BrandiE> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:26) Mike, so you think it's ok to do that? |
| <vectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:26) JoshC: uhhh |
| <vectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:26) JoshC: it's illegal. |
| <AndyR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:26) do you suppose they paid him to plug erin brokovitch? "now at blockbuster!" |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:26) steal film prints? probably not... ) |
| <eclectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:26) The challenge is not to crack DeCSS, but to change the law |
| <JimH> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:26) can anyone here what is being said in the room? |
| <anonymous> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:26) heh |
| <vectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:27) eclectro: why would you want to break DeCSS? :o |
| <AndyR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:27) how could you crack it |
| <JoshC> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:27) For MY use? I thought that's why there were four proof of purchases in most of my DVD cases..... |
| <eclectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:27) I can |
| <SarahL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:27) It's interesting how the two speakers are talking past each other. |
| <michaelM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:27) I'm assigning research projects in my class requiring the use of Napster -- can I get Valenti's attention *waving* ;) |
| <JimH> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:27) I keep getting the error that the server can't serve any more streams. |
| <AndyR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:27) it cracked css and started this whole confrotation |
| <vectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:27) JoshC: every time you make a copy of something you deprive the industry of precious profits. |
| <eclectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:27) I switched browsers from IE to Netscape, fixed my problems |
| <JonathanC> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:27) I get that too JimH |
| <LaurenceB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:27) i dont know why the world at large isnt up in arms over dmca |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:27) it cant even serve the streams it is currently trying to do |
| <vectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:27) OTOH, I ran a script the other day that copied MP3s around on my hard drive and then deleted them. I figure I've cost them millions by now. |
| <LaurenceB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:27) at least it's not UCITA |
| <LaurenceB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:27) which looks like it's stalling out |
| <DavidL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:27) The real issue is whether copyright law should control copying or use. Jack seems to think that IP owners should be able to dictate all use, and Lessig (and I) disagrees. That, as I see it, is the fundamental difference. |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:28) because the world at large is not affected by it |
| <NobO> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:28) BTW: According to the RIAA, even copying your OWN CDS onto your hard drive is illegal. |
| <NobO> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:28) Because the PC is not an approved device. |
| <JonathanC> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:28) Because the world at large doesn't understand it. |
| <LaurenceB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:28) the concept of copyright is to allow authors to make sufficient compensation to motivate continued creativity |
| <glennB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:28) Losing my sound here. |
| <vectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:28) DavidS: copyright restricts only duplication. But you can agree to a license that limits use. |
| <RobU> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:28) JoshC - Their's nothing stopping you from making a copy of a DVD byte by byte. Absolutley nothing at all. Many illegal DVD's are made that way. What the Descramble program does is allows a person to decode the content of a DVD REGARDLESS of what Region their in. You are decrypting the actual data, so region codes don't apply to the decoded data. That's what has them pissed off. Don't beleive it when they say that they're upset about it because of piracy. You can pirate something without |
| <eclectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:28) The issue is that copyright holders(movie studios) will take and take and take and tell they have thought police |
| <coo> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:28) but if i borrow a DVD from a library i cant watch it on my linux box |
| <eclectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:28) until |
| <AndyR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:28) no |
| <LaurenceB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:29) valenti would like you to believe that things like resale of a video you own might be illegal |
| <pharx> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:29) bags and double bags! the servers still full |
| <DavidL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:29) I think the Linux argument is a red herring, as there are commercial Linux players becoming available. |
| <LaurenceB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:29) there was a case regarding books a lot like this |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:29) sure you are Jack, dont be so modest |
| <AndyR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:29) they'll be outlawing linux soon, don't worry |
| <JoshC> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:29) lol |
| <vectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:29) DavidS: what about freeBSD? |
| <JimH> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:29) I hate judging a book without reading it but since I can't hear these guys talk |
| <vectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:29) DavidS: what about QNX? |
| <LaurenceB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:29) if someone can find me the information, since i dont remember any details, i'd be very greatfuk |
| <chrisK> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:29) none are available and beyond that there is none for openbsd |
| <demonolidgy> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:29) Outlawing Linux over my dead body |
| <LaurenceB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:29) that should say grateful |
| <LaurenceB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:29) i think |
| <vectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:29) DavidS: what about the OS I wrote this morning befor ebreakfast? |
| <eclectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:29) they have "becoming" available for a year now |
| <RobU> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:29) AndyR - Sounds funny doesn't? But you never know. Microsft might just try using it's clout to do that. |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:29) ok magical skeletons, hes losing it |
| <chrisK> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:29) when openbsd is avail.. then there isn't any avail for vms |
| <ErnestM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:29) Just because technology makes it easy to eliminate fair use, doesn't make it right. |
| <RyanL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:29) VMS would be cool!!! |
| <coo> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:30) is there like a jury / judge to vote a winner? |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:30) i decide the winner |
| <eclectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:30) fair use==use your DVD as a coaster |
| <vectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:30) DavidS: and, for that matter, what about Free Software (in the intellectual sense - http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/why-free.html) |
| <SarahL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:30) DavidL: That's exactly what it boils down to. But the citizens of the Net haven't had the chance to have a say in deciding this issue. That's the sad part. Why is this debate taking place AFTER the DMCA was approved? |
| <demonolidgy> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:30) Fair use wasn't eliminated |
| <DavidL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:30) That is a better argument. Stop talking just about Linux, but all the other OS's and future OS's. Should we have to pay to develop a DVD player for a new OS? |
| <AnthonyM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:30) In addition to fair use ... he wants to control distribution of the property. Thats the issue |
| <JimH> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:30) Generally, most folks will honor IP if they are given an easy way to do it. |
| <MPAAS> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:30) damn....i installed realplayer and the server is out of streams |
| <ErnestM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:30) Jack believes in fair use, just not actual uses of works. |
| <RyanL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:30) A nice Alpha chip wouldn't need a Voodoo card to do software decode |
| <JimH> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:30) We don't need draconian enforcement |
| <demonolidgy> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:30) DavidL: No |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:30) i have actually patented using DVDS as coasters, so be prepared to license that coasting technology from me |
| <ChristopherL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:30) The thing is that opening house doors is directly infringing on the property of others, whereas backing up one's own CD is not |
| <mary> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:30) everybodys lookin for something |
| <AlbertM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:30) ok my question is posted |
| <AnthonyM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:30) He wants to control distrubution. Thats the issue. |
| <AlbertM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:30) lets hope they ask it |
| <JimH> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:30) We need an easy way to pay if you download an MP3 or a video. |
| <DavidL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:30) Yes, "fair use" is not the best phrase since its definition is limited. What about "ordinary use"? |
| <JimH> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:31) The MPAA is going to either help do that or they are history. |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:31) he just wants to CONTROL. (period) |
| <JimH> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:31) Ever heard a death rattle? |
| <eclectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:31) keep trying MPAAS you'll get it-i did |
| <AndyR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:31) the mpaa? history? |
| <JimH> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:31) This entire MPAA lawsuit is just one long and painful death rattle. |
| <AndyR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:31) you're a fool |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:31) anyone still have the video? |
| <AlbertM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:31) i'm still geting video fine |
| <eclectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:31) "ordinary use" is fantastic idea david-email me |
| <LaurenceB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:31) I will begin by describing a procedure named CSStitlekey1 that uses a player key to decrypt the disk key. |
| <eclectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:31) eclectro@yahoo.com |
| <LaurenceB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:31) The procedure returns no value. |
| <JoshC> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:32) What about the Offspring wanting to release their next album for free on the internet? When the artist WANTS their works to be distributed, the comanies shut them up and threaten them.... |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:32) i have approx. 1/4 frame per second |
| <LaurenceB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:32) The procedure takes two arguments. |
| <AlbertM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:32) how fast is your connection? |
| <AndyR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:32) they are a focus of power and money for a very rich industry. even if the organization known as the mpaa is destroyed, another will rise to take it's place |
| <pharx> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:32) im getting servers full... |
| <JimH> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:32) We need a simple way to pay. |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:32) plenty fast ) |
| <LaurenceB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:32) The first argument is named KEY, and is a pointer to a vector of six unsigned bytes. These bytes initially contain an encrypted disk key. They will eventually hold the |
| <LaurenceB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:32) The second argument is named im, and is a pointer to a vector of six unsigned bytes. These bytes are the decryption key (the player key) that the procedure will use to |
| <DavidL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:32) I don't agree with the 14-year thing though. That is too short a term for movies, given their enormous cost. But I think the DMCA shifts too much power to the IP "owners". |
| <JimH> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:32) Andy is going to be a victim forever. |
| <AndyR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:32) nope |
| <coo> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:32) hes running the "Its for the author" shit |
| <JimH> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:32) He will submit to the rich and powerful. |
| <SarahL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:32) It's really irritating how the online users were discrimminated against and few of our questions were answered. Especially since we don't have a chance to talk to the speakers afterwards. |
| <DeeJayR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:32) I've got 34Kbps surestream. Small, but better then 4fps. |
| <Ryan> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:32) a |
| <RobU> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:33) JoshC - Exactly. Prince had to change his name because of that. Courtney Love fought to get out of her restrictive contract because of it. Billy Idol released a few tracks on MP3.com and was bullied by the industry to take them down. They talk about artists rights. But only as long as the BigWigs can make some money. |
| <LaurenceB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:33) ask jack why he didnt sue the new york times |
| <WalterB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:33) What have I missed? |
| <MPAAS> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:33) WOOOOHOOOOO I got webcast! |
| <eclectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:33) Yeah David, How 'bout just they way it was - life plus 50 instead of 70 |
| <AlbertM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:33) hmm 80kbps surestream here =) |
| <AndyR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:33) we need to have good lawmakers. |
| <AndyR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:33) that is the only way |
| <JimH> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:33) There is a real danger that the internet COULD be used to destroy freedom of speech |
| <DavidL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:33) I have no problem with the time scale, just the scope. |
| <ErnestM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:33) If you use a work in an unauthorized fashion that is not necessarily wrong. |
| <JimH> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:33) But I don't think that will happen here. (Hope not.) |
| <JimH> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:34) It almost works in China though. |
| <JoshC> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:34) I think personally that the RIAA are just a bunch of greedy loan sharks who prey on financially challenged artists for their own end. The MPAA falls into the same category..... |
| <SarahL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:34) DavidL, why not on the time scale? |
| <JimH> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:34) JoshC there is SOME truth to what you say. |
| <eclectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:34) yeah david, but it would be nice if copyright was just "they way it was back in 1976" |
| <AlbertM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:34) LOL |
| <JoshC> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:34) Sell us your first born and you can get a record shot! :^) |
| <JimH> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:34) The RIAA and MPAA are just like any other union. |
| <DavidL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:34) Jack keeps talking about "authorized" use. Who decides what is "authorized"? It used to be congress that retained the power to limit very specific uses. But the DMCA shifts that power to the copyright holders. |
| <ErnestM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:34) Jack Valenti believes in mass market contracts of adhesion to achieve what copyright law does not permit. |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:34) obviously jack decides what is authorized. |
| <DavidL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:34) Well, the time scale is really a separte debate altogether. |
| <eclectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:35) right david |
| <SarahL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:35) But the DMCA is already effective. |
| <AndyR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:35) shrinkwrap licensing wll rule you! |
| <DavidL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:35) I suppose it could be shortened somewhat, but I am much more concerned about the scope of control given by the DMCA. |
| <AlbertM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:35) good question...valenti actually admits that it really should be illegal to criticize a book if you sign a contract |
| <ErnestM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:35) Jack Valenti has no idea what fair use is, that is why he couldn't answer the question. |
| <eclectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:35) mikeW-Jack wants a national "protective shield" his words |
| <DavidL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:35) That brings up the whole issue of shrinkwrap licences. |
| <DavidL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:35) What happens when DVDs have shrinkwrap licences? |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:35) he wants an artistic condom in other words |
| <DavidL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:36) Good point. What happens when condoms have contracts printed on them? |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:36) all new works should be clones of old, owned by less than 10 companies |
| <JoshC> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:36) Look... he's so cute when he dodges questions he doesn't want to answer :^) |
| <eclectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:36) you know David, it's not one thing, it's everything put together that really stinks |
| <AlbertM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:36) umm now he's commenting on harvard social life |
| <ErnestM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:36) Larry 2 Jack 0 |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:36) no more creative *sexual* creation of content of anysort |
| <AndyR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:36) why not shrinkwrap licence everything? CIGARETTES!!!! by opening this pack you agree to not ascribe any responsibility for any medical problems you may develop to phillip morris© |
| <ErnestM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:36) Victory: Larry |
| <demonolidgy> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:36) god what a moron.....And I cant hear him |
| <DavidL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:36) Actually copyright law was pretty good up until about 5 years ago. |
| <AlbertM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:36) doh my beautiful question doesn't get answered |
| <DavidL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:36) Then things started to go bad. |
| <coo> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:37) aahahaha |
| <AndyR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:37) BYE JACK! |
| <MPAAS> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:37) that sucks |
| <coo> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:37) great joke |
| <John_Romero> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:37) that was good |
| <MPAAS> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:37) i got to see about 1/2min of webcast |
| <DavidL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:37) Not a great debate. |
| <JimH> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:37) If we eliminate copyright law, how do we pay artists? |
| <BillD> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:37) lol. i saw the last 10 seconds |
| <AndyR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:37) i'll enjoy watching your foibles and follies in front of congress soon! |
| <eclectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:37) coo- what joke/ |
| <eclectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:37) ? |
| <glennB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:37) I've lost all sound. |
| <MPAAS> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:37) what art...its all content |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:37) you know what? artists will figure it out |
| <MPAAS> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:37) lol |
| <chrisK> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:37) all gone :( |
| <ChristopherL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:37) I wish they had delved into the net questions more. ;( |
| <eclectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:37) it's done |
| <robinD> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:37) alright, now i will finish watching the simpsons. |
| <BrandiE> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:37) Hey all--I'm checking out---thanks for making such a great chat. |
| <AlbertM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:37) i hope valenti keeps arguing like this |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:38) art exists, profitable or not. |
| <JimH> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:38) And writers? No more royalties? |
| <Db> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:38) Well, Jack managed to avoid the tricky questions pretty well. |
| <JR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:38) grr |
| <JR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:38) can't get on |
| <robinD> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:38) jack didn't answer any question that i saw. |
| <eclectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:38) ok, we are trying to organize nationwide to change laws/protest - contact electro@yahoo.com |
| <AlbertM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:38) eventually he'll run into people that won't appreciate his evasion of tricky questions |
| <robinD> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:38) i mean heard :)L |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:38) as it turns out, as a whole, it seems to manage to become profitable, regardless of the medium |
| <AndyR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:38) what? |
| <AndyR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:38) congress loves it and they make the laws |
| <eclectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:38) thats eclectro@yahoo.com nix other email |
| <TimothyL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:38) you should hear his deposition in the 2600.com case |
| <JimH> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:38) If it takes $100,000,000 to make a movie, we need laws so that investment will happen. |
| <glennB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:38) That was great. Maybe the best Berkman event I've seen. Thanks, Ben and Becca and everyone else. |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:39) it doesnt take 1000000000 fsking dollars to make a damned movie |
| <RobU> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:39) JimH - There is a common misconception that without copyright people don't get paid. That's not true. Shakespeare, Brahms, Bethoven, and others from many years ago got paid for their works. All without the benefits of copyrights. All copyrights do is take away ownership from the actuall maker of the work, and transfer it to a megalith corporation to increase their bottom line at the expense of the public and the people that they're supposidly serving. Copyrights don' t help you get paid. |
| <AndyR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:39) everyone over to 2600.com and listen to the real audio |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:39) it takes the MPAA 10000000000 dollars to make a product |
| <AlbertM> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:39) I'd better go now...nice talking to you guys |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:39) HUGE difference |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:39) bye al |
| <eclectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:39) It was good idea, too bad because of the bugs |
| <glennB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:39) quit: |
| <MPAAS> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:39) 2600.com was recording this? |
| <glennB> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:39) woop |
| <JimH> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:40) Before copyright, how did the artist get paid? |
| <AndyR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:40) no |
| <AndyR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:40) his deposition |
| <chrisK> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:40) it'll be intresting to see emanual's take on this on off the hook |
| <AndyR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:40) although i wouldn't doubt it |
| <JackW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:40) jimh: ticket sales |
| <TimothyL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:40) Valenti's deposition is available in RealAudio over at the 2600 website |
| <JimH> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:40) Can we do ticket sales for software too? |
| <TimothyL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:40) he evades every question asked, except maybe his name |
| <JackW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:40) software isn't a once-only thing |
| <AndyR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:40) it is the most evasive bunch of hooey i've ever heard |
| <mary> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:40) played for the money |
| <JackW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:40) like live music |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:41) live performance of Word 2000! one night only! |
| <JimH> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:41) lol |
| <RobU> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:41) JimH - People actually paid the artist directly for their work. Or they worked with sponsorship deals. Many concertos/plays were paid for by rich/wealthy people who wanted to see something new. People were charged to see this and the profits were split evenly amongts all participants. |
| <JackW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:41) of course, Microsoft could claim that they've rented software out, and charge suckers dependant on them $500/year |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:41) you pay $50 at the door for free drinks and a chance to write a .doc Its marketing gold! |
| <AndyR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:41) windows.net is what that's all about |
| <eclectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:41) I think that the issue is that there shouldn't be copyright, but that there needs to be "reasonable copyright |
| <chrisK> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:41) I was rather disapointed.. I was expecting an actual debate rather then a series of misdirected monologs |
| <AndyR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:42) pay per use word, space cadet, et all |
| <eclectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:42) it did appear like that chrisk |
| <TimothyL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:42) Microsoft gets all secondary market sales of their products removed from Ebay |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:42) neh, pay per keystroke, so spelling really counts |
| <mary> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:42) music consumers get tons for what they pay for already |
| <JimH> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:42) It sounds like before copyrtights, you needed a rich patron? |
| <TimothyL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:42) that's not fair copyright |
| <JimH> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:42) Back to the rich being in control? |
| <eclectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:42) but the idea was still pretty good, and it was neat to see it done - |
| <JimH> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:42) Maybe with the net, we can have distributed patrons? |
| <chrisK> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:42) By reading these words you agree never to repeat these words again! |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:42) Rich are always in control. It has never been otherwise. |
| <AndyR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:43) well, |
| <AndyR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:43) get rid of money then |
| <TimothyL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:43) Did Shakespeare have a patron? |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:43) that is not unchangeable, but it has yet to change |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:43) yes |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:43) several |
| <RobU> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:43) JimH - In some ways yes. You needed a rich patron. But you actually owned the work. The patron didn't own the work. They were much like a movie studio today. They paid for it, but unlike today where you have to give up your rights to get the film made. The playwrigt/composer actually kept his rights. |
| <MPAAS> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:43) ever read 1984? explains things nicely |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:43) didn't you see the MPAA product "Shakespeare In Love" (read Shakespeare In $$$$) |
| <eclectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:43) The best way to fix things is "a little at a time" rather than drastic/sweeping actions |
| <JimH> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:43) RobU -- then it sounds like they still had "copyright" of one sort or another. |
| <JimH> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:44) Honestly, I'm just mad that it was legal to stop DeCSS. I don't really know about the long term issue of copyrights! |
| <eclectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:44) that's the way we have lost our "fair use" rights- a little at a time |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:44) who stopped deCSS? seriously now... |
| <TimothyL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:44) Copyright also keeps getting extended every couple years by congress |
| <AndyR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:44) since when has decss been stopped? |
| <JimH> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:44) Extended copyrights seem bad to me. |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:44) raise your hand if you are a criminal *raises hand |
| <RobU> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:45) JimH - Yes, they had it somesense. But it was more of a gentlemanly agreement. If you worked hard, you owned it. If the rich/powerfull liked your work they put up the money to get it produced. There was nothing stopping you from making money. You did get paid for your work. |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:45) raise your hand if you are a bad person |
| <TimothyL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:45) DeCSS - http://jya.com/mpaavhughes-dismiss.pdfhttp://jya.com/mpaavhughes-dismiss.pdfhttp://jya.com/mpaavhughes-dismiss.pdf2600.com cannot post links to DeCSS |
| <AndyR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:45) i cn get it in about 15 seconds from any 1 of a thousand foreign and domestic wb sites |
| <MPAAS> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:45) ^ |
| <TimothyL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:45) sorry about that - java bug |
| <MPAAS> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:45) go on http://gnute.com and search for DeCSS |
| <MPAAS> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:45) lol |
| <AndyR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:45) or google |
| <MPAAS> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:45) right |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:45) um, i fail to see how that stops me from posting decss ) |
| <JimH> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:45) My screen is now showing illegal links! OMG! |
| <TimothyL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:46) they might sue you if you post it |
| <AndyR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:46) my eyes have been soiled! ARRGH!!!!! |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:46) click click! (mouse) clang! clang! (jail) |
| <JimH> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:46) It says Harvard at the top! I guess they are responsible for these links |
| <eclectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:46) We shouldn't be trying to post DeCSS everywhere, we need to change law |
| <TimothyL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:46) just like they sued 2600.com |
| <AndyR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:46) yeah |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:46) harvard shut be put in prison |
| <RobU> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:46) http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/DeCSS/Gallery/ - This is a great site showing the world that SourceCode is indeed very expressive. ;-) |
| <TimothyL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:46) http://jya.com/mpaavhughes-dismiss.pdf |
| <AndyR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:46) but the links help linux people watch dvds in the mean time |
| <eclectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:46) saw that RobU |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:47) the entire institution thats the only way to protect the National Treasure that is the MFPAA |
| <JimH> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:47) If you know about mems, you understand that imitation (ie copying) is what makes us human. |
| <JimH> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:47) that was supposed to be memes. |
| <TimothyL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:47) read the link above - it's very informative on the DeCSS issue |
| <AndyR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:47) memes? |
| <eclectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:47) What we are on is a slippery slope, if we can't show code, what right will we lose next? |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:47) dont say memes please |
| <AndyR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:47) .q |
| <TimothyL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:47) meme is a meme |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:47) i find that word highly offensive ) |
| <TimothyL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:47) okay, sorry |
| <AndyR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:47) hey |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:48) hehe |
| <JimH> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:48) memeplex. You are nothing more than a memeplex. |
| <TimothyL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:48) lol |
| <AndyR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:48) try the command "/admin" ! |
| <AndyR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:48) i wonder what other commands are available? |
| <JimH> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:48) Not it says the link is down. |
| <eclectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:48) hi phokus, youve missed it |
| <Phokus2> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:48) missed what? |
| <JimH> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:48) Oh well. Nice chatting with you other memeplexes. Take care. |
| <JimH> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:49) Bye. |
| <eclectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:49) the debate |
| <TimothyL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:49) later |
| <Phokus2> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:49) yeah well i couldn't freaking get on the video stream |
| <Db> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:49) Why do you find memes offensive? |
| <eclectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:49) it wasn't much of debate tho |
| <AndyR> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:49) how about /reboot |
| <eclectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:49) lots of bugs my end too |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:49) argument: since i can make a movie which costs infinity minus one dollars, i should be able to protect (read CONTROL) it for infinity minus one days. is this a correct summary of JV's argument? or not? |
| <eclectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:49) I switched to netscape, and that fixed me, java problems |
| <Db> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:50) Mike: Not exactly.. |
| <TimothyL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:50) i wish i could/had seen the debate |
| <Db> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:50) They want to milk it as long as they want, x4. |
| <eclectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:50) timothy, there going to post a copy later |
| <Db> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:50) Just to be on the safe side. |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:50) what was he trying to say then? |
| <TimothyL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:50) cool |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:50) thats pretty recursive no? |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:50) hehe |
| <Db> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:50) heh :) |
| <Db> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:50) Maybe ;) |
| <Db> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:51) It's too bad he avoided all the control through technology issues. |
| <Db> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:51) That's really where the debate is. |
| <TimothyL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:51) he's very good at avoiding things |
| <eclectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:51) Jack Valenti is "just a mouth" |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:51) not true! |
| <Db> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:51) Copyright needs to be softened up, and artists need to keep ownership of their works, but that's not going to happen anytime soon. |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:51) Jack Valenti is also funny hair! |
| <Db> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:51) Old man hair! ;-) |
| <eclectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:52) they're not going to give an inch on this issue torpedoes be dammed! |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:52) i love how he spent most of the time taking over the mod's podium |
| <TimothyL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:52) I haven't been able to get onto 2600.com for a couplr days now - is it down? |
| <Db> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:52) Mike: heh, yeah. :) |
| <Db> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:52) Tim: Have you tried 2600.org? |
| <TimothyL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:53) yeah, no dice |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:53) And his i'm-rich-its-fun bit went over (un)surprisingly well at Harvard Law |
| <eclectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:53) Nice ranting with you all |
| <mikeW> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:53) bye |
| <MPAAS> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:53) do they have the real audio of this? |
| <TimothyL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:53) later |
| <eclectro> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:53) c u on slashdot |
| <Db> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:53) Mike: heh, yeah, what a surprise. |
| <mary> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:55) farewell,see u at the movies on thurs. hope you all enjoy this freebie. It's quickly disappearing. |
| <TimothyL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:55) true |
| <wiggum> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:56) hrmm |
| <wiggum> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:56) can't even get on to watch this |
| <wiggum> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:56) shame |
| <Db> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:56) wiggum: It's over. |
| <wiggum> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:56) doeth |
| <mary> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:57) ps it's not over til the fat lady sings |
| <TimothyL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:58) so who won the debate? |
| <Db> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:58) mary: So, are you going to sing? ;-) |
| <mary> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:59) later |
| <Db> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:59) Timothy: It wasn't really a debate.. |
| <TimothyL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:59) oh, how'd it go? |
| <Db> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:59) And I think that the MPAA showed once again how good and slimy a rep Jack V. is.. |
| <Db> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:59) He managed to look good and not really say anything. |
| <Db> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 20:59) Except that he doesn't mind stuff being shown in classrooms or libraries. Great. |
| <TimothyL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 21:00) But he said in his deposition you can't show stuff copied from DVD's in libraries or classrooms |
| <TimothyL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 21:00) but that it was okay with videocassettes |
| <TimothyL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 21:01) i think that's when his attorney told him to shutup by claiming the question called for a legal conclusion (which apparently Valenti wasn't allowed or ab able to make) |
| <Db> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 21:04) Tim: Yeah, something like that. |
| <TimothyL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 21:05) lol - i thought everyone had left... |
| <Db> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 21:05) well, I have a lot of windows open. :) |
| <TimothyL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 21:05) me too |
| <Db> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 21:05) I mean, what's the difference between showing a DVD and a copy of a DVD? |
| <Db> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 21:05) Wether it be digital or VHS? |
| <TimothyL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 21:06) there really isn't, but the MPAA wants to make a claim there is and then use that "difference" as an excuse for having different copyright protections (read: extended copy protections) for DVDs |
| <TimothyL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 21:11) Anyone able to access 2600.com? |
| <TimothyL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 21:20) Get your DeCSS t-shirt here: http://www.copyleft.net/item.phtml?dynamic=1&referer=%2Fcategory.phtml%3Fpage%3Dcategory_apparel.phtml%26dynamic%3D1%26referer&page=product_276_front.phtml |
| <TimothyL> (Sun, October 01, 2000 at 21:20) Or just: http://www.copyleft.net/ |
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