Re: [h2o-discuss] Plagiarism?

["Tuyet A. Ngoc Tran" <tatn2000@yahoo.com>]

I can only respond to one aspect of this discussion
insofar as the comment "artists plagiarizing their own
works" which presented a peculiar oxymoron, to say the
least. I can't write authoritatively on artworks but,
I can respond as a composer and multimedia artist. 
Countless composers over several centuries dating back
to Antonio Vivaldi, Johann Sebastian Bach, Mozart,
Beethoven, to Sergei Prokofieff,Edward Elgar,J.
Sibelius to American composers Aaron Copland, Roy
Harris, Steve Reich, and most prominently, John Adams
to name just a few examples. If you were to have a
first-hand reading and analysis of most of these
composers' famous works over time, inevitably there is
a consistent similarity of a few musical ideas and/or
style that would link to individual composer's
previous works. 

In fact, John Adams who is very much alive, wrote
recently in his programme note for the Avery Fisher
Hall premiere of his work, that he quoted several
segments of his earlier works and how he had changed
those concepts in the Naive and Sentimental Music (US
premiere '99).  He proudly detailed how he had
incorporated these musical ideas to another work
containing an entirely different musical line and
orchestration. In the music circle, it is to the
composer's credits that s/he can maintain particular
consistency in creativity and development of her/is
ideas over time. None of us who  studied composition
would have ever thought about such nefarious reference
to our own individual creativity. Although I am not
the same person in life experiences today as I was in
my teens nevertheless, the musical ideas still come
from the same individual albeit, older and more
experimental in developing my musical ideas. How is it
possible that some of the discussants can blithely
accept the absurdity of artists (this includes,
composers) "plagiarize" their own works. This notion
would thereby "condemns" almost several centuries
worth of extremely versatile and brilliant composers. 

On a more personal level, my composition works have
finally found some of its own consistency enough that
listeners have on occasion recognize "my" style and
approach. The music is not the same nor were the
musical ideas nor instrumentations yet, there are
previously conceived lines that have been incorporated
into a totally different work. I realize that as I am
writing this note to a public forum, I also risk
public flogging for "plagiarism of my own work". The
point is not to simplify a rather complex component of
creative art and just to be safe, I'll stick to music.


On the other hand, if you are referring to
improvisational writing then the music will vary each
time but, the pulse and variations of the tempo are
similar or even open quoations, therein lies the
"plagiarism of the beat". I don't think Mr. Wynton
Marsalis will take kindly to people pontificate to him
about "plagiarism" when he mentioned that in his works
he had quoted from other famous jazz musicians in New
Orleans.

Please bear in mind that these are my opinions derived
from an ongoing experience of a developing composer.
Who knows, maybe ten years from now, I will end up
quoting from materials that just came to me in 1999. I
sincerely hope that no one contemplates on promoting
the plagirism notion beyond this forum. It is not
helpful to many of us who are starting out as
contemporary classical music composers. This notion
can become another societal deterrent to natural
process of creativity due to some misconceptions
spearheaded by the powers-that-be. That would be
unfortunate, indeed.

Thank you. 
 Tuyet

--- Eric Eldred <eldred@mediaone.net> wrote:
> Although examples of artists infringing on their
> own copyright or plagiarising their own work
> are hard to imagine, I will refer you to an
> interesting New York Times Sunday Magazine article
> a few weeks ago about an art forgery case.  In
> the middle of the article is presented some news
> about artists who falsely dated their paintings
> or signed documents of authenticity, just in order
> to make more money for them or their heirs.

===
Tuyet A. Tran
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